What are the chances?

Nutty_Tart

X-Man - I have just very (and i mean very) quickly scanned through this thread, so I expect I have missed very valid points which people have made, so please excuse me. From your first post, I seem to have read it differently from other people:-

Customer:- (name in print)
Signature:- (signature of customer above)
Date:- (date)

Therefore I have read that, as there is two differing signatures, the forms have been signed incorrectly, thus invalid ?????????

As I said, I haven' really read the thread, and may have missed valid points, so please don't shoot me down. If I'm talking rubbish, then I apologise in advance.

Poosmate

Hi Xman,

Although I believe Incisor has made some insensitive comments s/he has also made some very valid points.

By your own admission you feel you are clutching at straws in voiding this debt on the technicality you propose and I think it is wrong to offer false hope in this respect. Having said that, if you don't try you will never know.

Without knowing ALL of the facts about how the loan was taken out how can anybody, with all the best intentions, give correct advice rather than sympathetic advice? Only a solicitor or the debt advisory people who see all of the paperwork and know all of the circumstances can do that.

As you have dealt with your mother's finances since your father's death, I wonder when you found out about the loan. Did you know they were going to do this? If so didn't you think it was wrong in the circumstances? If you found out after the fact then why didn't you question how it could have been allowed immediately? I am just so shocked that any financial institute could offer a loan to a person knowing that the source of the repayments was not going to be there till the end of the repayment period! Shocked and amazed!

(This bit is for Incisor too)

Regarding the grievance side I promise you, you will grieve for your father for the rest of your life to some extent or another but you will deal with it. You've got through your first Christmas without him and you still have more milestones to pass. his birthday, Fathers Day and the 1st anniversary of his passing. It gets easier but those special days/anniversaries will still hurt your heart. I still grieve for my dad after 29 years. I was 13 when he died. I guess this will sound selfish but I grieve for the loss of the life I didn't have with him, simple things like legally buying him a pint on my 18th birthday, fixing a car engine or letting him ride my first 500cc motorbike - I never got to do any of that. I grieve for my daughter who died at birth 7 years ago. There is no time limit for grief, you just deal with it when it hits you.

That for me is grief.

I hope you get things sorted anyway which ever way.

Good luck

Poo

rog2

Incisor wrote: »

At the same time, for us on this board to start suggesting how the facts can be construed as mis - selling.

Actually, incisor, the most consistent 'suggestion' is that the OP takes independent professional advice - although I did notice that YOU dismissed that advice by inferring that any professional adviser would be in it purely for personal commercial gain.
One of the biggest advantages of this forum is that we can direct posters towards professional advisers who are not actually 'in it for the money' such as NDL or CCCS.
A point, incisor, that you may even learn to appreciate yourself, if you decide to stay around.

rog2

Incisor wrote: »

the first question you must ask about an expert's advice is "What's in it for him?".

These are your actual words, incisor. Where, please tell me have I 'twisted them?'

I have tried to draw you into constructive discussion, directed towards the OP's situation, yet you 'retaliate' almost as if your views are the only ones to be respected.
Your comments on this thread, incisor, are more akin to those of a 'Troll' than somebody who is prepared to offer genuine advice and direction.
It tempts me to think that this thread would be the better without your contribution.

tyllwyd

Incisor wrote: »

... 18 months from now, 20 exchanges of solicitors correspondence, 2 days in court and 2 fat barristers later a judge will say "The plaintiffs knew what they were signing or that they should known that they needed to understand what they were signing, they took the money, case dismissed, costs to British Gas". Is this really what people wish to foist on the OP and his mother?

I can see what you are saying, but I don't agree that anything is being 'foisted' on the OP - I see it more as if he had gone down to the pub with a group of friends and asked for some opinions. He's had some feedback from other people and he can make his own mind up whether to take it further or walk away.

As an aside, there are cases where wives have signed mortgages over the family home and have later been able to fight it in court on the grounds that their husband exercised 'undue influence' over them. I'm not saying it applies in this case, but just because there is nothing wrong with a document doesn't mean that there is absolutely no chance that it can be overturned and no point in even discussing whether it can be questioned. (for example, there is an article here
http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/library.asp?i=2694)

tyllwyd

Incisor wrote: »

For that kind of claim, the signature being in the wrong place is an absolutely terrible starting point.

I agree.


..

rog2

tyllwyd wrote: »

I agree.

I also agree that this may not have been the best 'starting point' to question the validity of the agreement.
However, the OP, by his own admission, is not particularily 'au fait' with the workings of the Financial Industry and has come to this forum to seek some advice as to how he might deal with 'a problem'.
Whilst his initial post may come accross, to some, as looking for a way to simply avoid paying what could be a perfectly enforceable debt, it has, at least, thrown up the possibility that his parents may have been badly advised when signing the agreement, and he needs to pursue this line of enquiry further.
He has, hopefully, also been given a few good pointers as to where he might best obtain independent professional advice.
I admire him for stating that " I don't want sympathy, nor am I trying to wriggle out of paying ... If she is liable, I will pay it - simple as that really."
I see absolutely nothing wrong in wishing to know if a 'debt' is legally enforceable before paying it.

rog2

X-man wrote: »

Like I said, I have negotiated a settlement figure with the DCA.

X-man - it may well be that negociating, and paying, a 'Full and Final Settlement is one of the better options for you and your mother.

However, I notice that you use the words 'settlement figure' when you should, in fact, be looking at a "Full and Final Settlement Offer".
Only by using these words, and getting written acknowledgent from the dca that it will, indeed, be a 'Full and Final Settlement', can you be 100% sure that the dca, or another, will not chase your mother for the 'balance' in a couple of years time.
Have a look at the following NDL link:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

Another, also NDL link, that could be useful to you, regarding what to do about debt when someone dies:

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=21_what_to_do_about_debt_when_someone_dies

Good luck

poppyg_2

Incisor wrote: »

At the same time, for us on this board to start suggesting how the facts can be construed as mis - selling is a bit like the friends of the woman who had a 1 night stand which she regrets telling her that if she regrets it, it must have been rape.

No I think that's very different actually but we'll not even go there

Surely the point is whether British Gas knew the OPs father was terminally ill or not? If they didn't then I think there is no choice but to pay the debt but if they did then surely that is very wrong and something CAB or a solicitor could advise on?

kel123_2

You may want to look at

Office of Fair Trading
Consumer Credit Licensing
General Guidance of Licensees and Applicants on Fittnes and Requirements
January 2008

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/credit_licences/oft969.pdf