Landlords should have Energy Performance Certificates from 1st October

Bungarm2001

tbs624...you ROCK!! :T :T :T :T

TJ27

tbs624 wrote: »

:T
It’s the same with most people buying a domestic appliance: the reality is that the vast majority will go on how the appliance looks, how it fits with the rest of their equipment/their kitchen colour scheme, the total price and then maybe whether it’s an a, b or c at the end of all that, or even not at all.. If the retailer says that you need to wait 4 weeks for an A rated model but you could have a C rated one today with free delivery, guess which one most would go for, if the product had ticked all their other boxes?

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable comparison to make. When I'm walking around Comet looking for a dishwasher I do think about how it looks, what brand it is and how likely it is to get me dishes clean. But I certainly don't ignore the energy rating badge thingie. If I'm undecided between two very similar machines, the energy rating will definitely swing it. And I'm unlikely to go for one with a very low rating at all.

So to come back to property if I was undecided between renting two flats, all other things being equal (or equalish), I'm going to go for the house with the better energy rating.

A good example of this might be that I would go for a lower storey flat rather than a top storey flat which would tend to lose heat through the roof. The top storey flat might then lie empty for a few months, while the landlord pays the mortgage. If he'd stuck in loads of insulation and got a better rating then I might have chosen his flat instead. But hey, I care about him losing money as much as he did about the EPC.

Yes of course we all know that being close to a train station or whatever is likely to be top of somebody's priority list rather than a good energy rating. I'm just saying that the energy rating could be important to some people and landlords should at least acknowledge that rather than dismiss it, because it's in their interests too.

Anyway, I don't think anybody has argued that reducing energy consumption is a bad thing, just that this is a rubbish way of going about it. So what's a good way then? Legislative measures to bring all properties up to a certain EPC rating? For all we know that could be what they've got planned.

Bungarm2001

"So what's a good way then? Legislative measures to bring all properties up to a certain EPC rating? For all we know that could be what they've got planned"

Well, if that is what they have planned then they are on to a non-starter unless they take into consideration ALL the factors that determine whether a property is energy efficient or not. Energy efficiency surely is subjective to a degree?

TJ27

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

"So what's a good way then? Legislative measures to bring all properties up to a certain EPC rating? For all we know that could be what they've got planned"

Well, if that is what they have planned then they are on to a non-starter unless they take into consideration ALL the factors that determine whether a property is energy efficient or not. Energy efficiency surely is subjective to a degree?

Aye, you can do a degree in pretty much anything. Energy efficiency must be available in some college or other. I studied it as part of my building technology degree but not in great depth I'm pleased to say!

I'm sure that if such legislation were to be considered then there would have to be a consultative period. Who knows, they might even take our views on board (but they probably wouldn't). You clearly know more than I do if I'm honest though. I doubt if I'd even know what all the energy efficiency factors were, never mind know that they're not already considered in the EPC.

silvercar

A good example of this might be that I would go for a lower storey flat rather than a top storey flat which would tend to lose heat through the roof. The top storey flat might then lie empty for a few months, while the landlord pays the mortgage. If he'd stuck in loads of insulation and got a better rating then I might have chosen his flat instead. But hey, I care about him losing money as much as he did about the EPC.

But what happens if the upstairs flat is slightly cheaper rent?

There is a predominantly ex-council area near me where there are a few private rentals let mainly to benefit recipients. Mainly 60s built houses. The tenants were presumably restricted to rental levels that could be met within HB/ LHA levels. The choice in the area would be between these houses and modern (boxy) 2 bed flats with no garden. On EPC the flats will do much better than houses with inefficient boilers and no double glazing, but clearly with young children the housees are in demand. If the LLs were forced to improve the rating of the houses, the rents would be increased and then the houses would be out of reach of these tenants.

TJ27

silvercar wrote: »

But what happens if the upstairs flat is slightly cheaper rent?

Hence my use of the words, "all other things being equal".

subjecttocontract

TJ27 wrote: »

Hence my use of the words, "all other things being equal".

..........but they very rarely are.

Leaseholders don't own the building so have no control over insulation levels in lofts and walls or the method of heating......which is usually electric as gas is forbidden (on safety grounds?). They could do a bit on double glazing but modern properties usually already are. So......whats left ?

Nothing. I rest my case.

An EPC for leasehold property is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Don't expect me to give the EPC surveyor an easy time either......shoes off when he comes in AND he had better have his own torch and step ladder if he wants to go in the loft. There won't be any help or assistance from me.

seven-day-weekend

You know, there really is some stupid legislation around which is counter-productive.

Landlords are going to get cheesed off with all these silly regulations that benefit no-one and will withdraw from the rental market. Then the housing shortage will be even worse.

The only one I agree with is the requirement to have a Gas Safety certificate as that could literally mean the difference between life and death.

But this scheme and others like it? Waste of time, space and energy.

TJ27

subjecttocontract wrote: »

..........but they very rarely are.

I know, I know!

I'm just picking hypothetical examples out of the air to illustrate that a decent EPC might just tip the balance between landlords having their houses full or having them empty. So it would be unwise to ignore them.

I know that no two properties are the same. I know that rents are different. I know that several other factors are more important when chosing somewhere to live. But most landlords seem to just dismiss EPCs as another unnecessary expense.

A good EPC just might be a useful tool to market your property with. Try to see it as a positive thing rather than a negative. Tsk! What would Alan Sugar say?

Anyway, you win. I've run out of imagination and I'm going over the pub.

clutton_2

""Landlords are going to get cheesed off with all these silly regulations that benefit no-one and will withdraw from the rental market. Then the housing shortage will be even worse.""

toooo right - for the first time in 9 years, i am thinking about jacking in this business - except the property market is in decline !!

the next "beauracratic hoop we will have to jump thru as landlords - we will soon have to comply with the HHSRS standards - local authorities are now wanting to inspect rental properties to bring them up to a safer standard - i was told that one of my landing bannisters was 1 1/2" too wide and that it must be reduced - this apparently in case a toddler could fall thru - even tho - of the 3 prospective tenants - not one of them weighed less than 14 stones !!!!

madness utter madness - yet at the same time they ignored a socket with sheathing and copper wires exposed (the last tenant had left their mark) - no rhyme no reason to any of it .....