Landlords should have Energy Performance Certificates from 1st October

PayDay

tbs624 wrote: »

Those who are LLs , and take what they do seriously, would be aware of these requirements already - the info has been in the public domain for quite a while, there is info on LandlordZone, on Government webpages, and the local and National LL Associations have been putting out this info for several months.You'd have to be a total amateur to not know about it. There will be more and more publicity about it for both LLs and Tenants as the time draws nearer but EPC providers are running businesses and they are trying to encourage as many people as possible to get theirs done forward of that date.

Yes, the site is for sharing info, but IMO when you have people using their full names, giving their location and providing a link to their business website rather than a personal webpage it maybe puts a different slant on the true reason for their post.

From reading this site I am sure you must realise that there are plenty of LLs who are a "total amateur". I am not sure what your objection is to tenants and those who are a "total amateur" discussing information like this on Martin's site?

If you believe that the poster is out of order, then hit the alert button so that the mods can decide. However, I am sure that others have received work through this site.

PayDay

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

T Fact is, it won't make it any better for prospective tenants because the bad LL's will continue to ignore this and run the risks of fines,

Isn't it lucky then that this can be discussed on Internet forums, so that prospective tenants can be aware of the LLs legal requirements.

Bungarm2001

Payday...I totally agree with you...just the same as I think it's lucky that LL's can read about problem LL's and realise that after all, the majority of us aren't money grabbing scumbags who couldn't care less for their tenants or the homes they live in.

silvercar

I can't see how these reports will actually make homes more energy efficient. Sure the well prepared landlords will have the reports ready for tenants viewing property, but whether landlords will start improving insulation and re commissioning reports is another matter.

EdInvestor

Will an EPC done for a rented flat and valid for 10 years be usable in a HIP should the landlord subsequently want to sell the property?

TJ27

silvercar wrote: »

I can't see how these reports will actually make homes more energy efficient. Sure the well prepared landlords will have the reports ready for tenants viewing property, but whether landlords will start improving insulation and re commissioning reports is another matter.

I think the point is that tenants will be able to make more informed decisions when renting. If two flats are identical but one is clearly going to cost more in bills than the other, then the cheaper to heat one will probably be taken first. It just might give it an edge. Then the landlord of the empty property will be able to chose whether or not to improve the rating when the next prospective tenant rolls up. The EPC will be quite handy in that respect I believe, because it will give pointers regarding how to achieve a better rating. (I'm not 100% sure about that though.)

At the end of the day it's all about saving energy and I think it's quite hard to argue against that in principle. Unless you're Jeremy Clarkson or something.

clutton_2

""The EPC will be quite handy in that respect I believe, because it will give pointers regarding how to achieve a better rating."

the EPC simply tells us what we all already know - a double glazed house is waremer than a single glazed house; an end terrace is colder than a mid terrace; a house with full central heating is warming than one without -

the bluddy INSANE thing about these stupid certs - is that landlords DO NOT HAVE TO DO DIDDLY SQUAT ABOUT IMPROVING THEIR ENERGY EFFICIENCY IF THEY DONT WANT TO - there is NO legal sanction to force a LL to improve his property - what is the point in that - what a crazy utterly pointless piece of beaureaucratic rubbish this is - the day any of my prospective tenants ask me for a cert is the day i eat my hat.

Folks have common sense in this life, and we can all see what houses are going to be expensive and which are not -

the bluddy beaureaucrats in Europe have to invent rubbish like this to justify their hugely inflated and un-necessary salaries.

tbs624

PayDay wrote: »

From reading this site I am sure you must realise that there are plenty of LLs who are a "total amateur". I am not sure what your objection is to tenants and those who are a "total amateur" discussing information like this on Martin's site?

The second paragraph that you quoted from my other post adequately explains my viewpoint:

Yes, the site is for sharing info, but IMO when you have people using their full names, giving their location and providing a link to their business website rather than a personal webpage it maybe puts a different slant on the true reason for their post.

It’s kind of strange PayDay that you should take that as meaning that I object to tenants or amateur LLs discussing the issue, but I’ll explain again: the vast majority of people who share info on here or offer suggestions seem to do so freely, without attachment, and without the intention of any personal financial gain. If you are posting to broaden awareness of your personal business, then my view is that you should honestly and openly declare that interest.

PayDay wrote: »

If you believe that the poster is out of order, then hit the alert button so that the mods can decide. However, I am sure that others have received work through this site.

Now, shall I extrapolate that one, and say that you mean that if enough people do anything, then that makes it okay? Nope……… let’s just recognise that we have different viewpoints.

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

....the EPC simply tells us what we all already know - a double glazed house is waremer than a single glazed house; an end terrace is colder than a mid terrace; a house with full central heating is warming than one without ......... .........what a crazy utterly pointless piece of beaureaucratic rubbish this is - the day any of my prospective tenants ask me for a cert is the day i eat my hat.

:T
Totally agree with you Clutton - when choosing a flat/house to rent, most people want somewhere that’s right for the work commute, close to friends, big enough for them and their furniture, and not in the midst of a grim neighbourhood. Most people ask about parking, a garden, the neighbourhood and if it’s a family, the local school. However green you might want everyone to be, a property’s EPC figures are really not going to feature that highly in the decision making process - warm as toast and cheap heating bills in that one but I’ll need to use the car to do a round trip to get the kids to school(because of the lack of public transport), check on the elderly parents and get to work. I think it’s going to be especially irrelevant for short -term lets.

It’s the same with most people buying a domestic appliance: the reality is that the vast majority will go on how the appliance looks, how it fits with the rest of their equipment/their kitchen colour scheme, the total price and then maybe whether it’s an a, b or c at the end of all that, or even not at all.. If the retailer says that you need to wait 4 weeks for an A rated model but you could have a C rated one today with free delivery, guess which one most would go for, if the product had ticked all their other boxes?

It will be the same with EPCs for properties. If I need a place to live at the end of May and the only ones that are available are D rated, then I’m not going to pitch a tent and wait until a higher-rated property becomes available. If the measure is supposed to help those on tight budgets to choose where to live, its just not going to happen - the higher the EPC grade, then the higher the rent will be. A newer property will get a higher rating than an older one (because of different building regs in place) , but shallow being that I am, give me a choice between a Barratt box and a period property and I’ll go for the older one every time (and if my heating costs get too high I’ll wear another jumper.)

If you have a look at the detail of these EPCs, there is no scope for the assessor to deviate from the reduced data usable by the government software that is used to produce your glorious full colour certificate.The RdSAP - Reduced Data Standard Assessment Procedure offers “ a standard way of inferring missing data” but for example, AFAIAA, they can take solar power into account but not wind power. Now if they change this at a later date, and you have your own wind power (no jokes please) are you going to want to pay out for a new certificate just so you can have a different colour and letter on your EPC?

How many miles of car travel are all these EPC assessors making for their “work” ? How many trees are going into producing the paper for assessor training course brochures and shiny EPC certificates? How many hours of electricity/gas usage did it take to heat and light the rooms whilst the government sat around devising their implementation, or the myriad would-be assessors sat at their computers studying their “course” or inputting their property data? Hope a few trees were planted somewhere to off-set it all …….

TJ27 wrote: »

...At the end of the day it's all about saving energy and I think it's quite hard to argue against that in principle.......

I don’t think most of us would disagree with the principle, but it’s the methodology that’s wrong. Total bureaucratic muddled thinking. If the Government wants to make an impact regarding the Kyoto Agreement then they could start by getting rid of big ministerial cars, turn down the office heating for all civil servants and turn off lights that burn all night in empty office blocks, instead of unnecessary box ticking for residential property. Yes, we’ll all comply, because we have to - but that doesn’t mean that the EPC is a big or clever idea .

Notlob

I am doubtful that EPC will have any effect on rented properties.

I am not convinced that tenants will base decisions around EPC and also suspect that Landlords won't bother spending money on recommended improvements as it would be the tenant who would benefit.

Not too sure how to start a poll on this site but would be interested in knowing the following:-

Tenants - Would an EPC influence your decision to rent a particular property?

Landlords - Upon having an EPC, would you undertake the recommended improvements?