New house purchase problems, 2 radiators not working

immy

We purchased a house a few days ago, and have noticed a problem with the radiators in the conservatory. They do not heat up at all even if the thermostat is set at 30C.

Spoke with the sellers informally and they have responded saying they have never worked since installation in 2003 due to boiler not being powerful enough to cope with 2 extra radiators. However we were never told before purchase that this was a problem. The house was built 1998 and the conservatory with 2 additional radiators were built 2003.

In the house purchase missives it states that "the central heating system will be in reasonable working order commensurate with its age and design and the seller is responsible for the cost of routine repairs only and shall not be responsible for the cost of any deemed upgrading or betterment of said items." We have 5 days to report any defects.

Where do I stand on this matter? Obviously i was led to believe that everything was in working order and we now find that the heating in the conservatory does not work, which prevents its use during the winter months. Infact in scotland, its cold most of the time so unless we heat the conservatory using electric/gas heaters then we wouldn't be able to use it at night or in winter.

Should I be looking for the boiler to be upgraded/replaced to allow the conservatory radiators to be operational and in "reasonable working order"?

The house purchase missives seem to be worded in a way so as to prevent us requesting a more powerful boiler to be fitted to allow the conservatory radiators to function normally. If we had known the conservatory radiators were not working, then we would have reduced our offer price for the house accordingly.

thoughts appreciated.
thanks

SquatNow

Try bleeding them first.

Then sue.

Personally I think the claim that

immy wrote: »

they have never worked since installation in 2003 due to boiler not being powerful enough to cope with 2 extra radiators.

is complete rubbish and shows a total misunderstand of basic physics.

More likely they are just turned off somewhere you can't see.

Edit to add: When I say bleed them, I mean the radiators, not the sellers....

immy

I will try bleeding them tonight, but even the pipes going up to the radiator thermostat valve were cold suggesting the hot water was not reaching the radiator at all. Although i am no expert on radiatiors/boilers etc.

Alias_Omega

Get a plumber in and get them to set the radiators up, there should be a drop of about 10 degrees from the temperature in, to temperature out. The TRV valve just controls the output supply, its the blanked cap that is the supply in, and takes the heat from the boiler.

I would guess they all need turning down, and from there you will see the 2 furthest radiators coming to life..

Bleeding wont fix it, its just the others are drawing too much from the boiler.

PasturesNew

Tricky one.

You say they never said, but then you never asked.
The contract would seem to exclude the fact that the boiler needs upgrading.

You could try your luck on it, but ultimately I think you're just going to have to be annoyed by it and put a separate fire in the conservatory.

If you'd bought the house without radiators in the conservatory, would it have really changed your decision to purchase? It might be that you didn't even notice them or think about it until you came to use them. In which case it's annoying but not the end of the world.

As for the boiler, when you buy them you do spec out what they're to be used for. For mine I said I wanted to go into the loft at some stage, so that requirement was built into my boiler requirement right from the start. So it is possible that the boiler there can't cope with the number of radiators.

Do they heat up if you turn all the others off? Or not at all? If they do work when others are off, then it will prove the hot water can reach them and that boiler capacity is probably the issue.

immy

We had stated in our original missives that the central heating be in full working order and be supplied with an upto date certificate saying they were up to the latest spec/regulations. Their solicitor then changed wording as quoted in first post.

If the conservatory did not have radiators, then we certainly wouldnt have offered the value we actually paid for the house.

My point is, that the conservatory radiators do not heat up at all and that suggests to me that they are not in "reasonable working order". The questions is, how do we get them "repaired" or operational without having to upgrade the boiler?

If we have to turn the other radiators off or reduce them, that will make other parts of the house cold, and defeats the purpose of a fully functioning central heating system.

Canucklehead

Hi

Several suggestions after assuming the boiler stat is turned up and the boiler is actually producing hot water to the rest of the system.
The valves at both ends are turned on.
The TRV is not stuck
The pipework is installed correctly ie flow and return . I have accidentally connected both ends of a radiator to the same pipe. (it doesn't work!)
The pipework may not have been upsized to take the extra load on the system.
Insulation of the pipes will have an impact as well.
I doubt the output of the boiler will be the problem.(just out of interest what is the boiler make and model. )
The system was never balanced as said by Alias_Omega

Corgi Guy.

immy

The other radiators are fully working and are hot.

The 2 radiators in question have modern thermostats on them at one end of the radiator. Dont think there is a valve at the other end.

I am not sure what or how to "balance" the system?

Looks like i will need to call the plumber to come check the system.
I will check the boiler type and do a count of radiators in the house and report back tonight.

silvercar

Your first task is to work out if these radiators are connected to the system and capable of working.

Turn off most of the other radiators then see if the conservatory ones heat up. If not look for anything like a valve or tap on pipework to them that could have been turned off.

From the statement you quote, the most you will get will be the cost of replacement electrical radiators for the conservatory rather than a new boiler.

immy

Just went over to check what the boiler type was.

Its an Ideal Boiler - "Classic LXRS and RS room sealed Gas Boiler" - Model number RS250

Total radiators in the house are 15, including the 2 within the conservatory.

Canucklehead

Hi

It possible the boiler is undersized. Only calculating out the house size would confirm that though.( You have a 14.7 KW boiler) http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/housingbuildings/calculators/boilersizing/

As you say the rest of the system heats up ok it would be logical to assume that poor circulation is the problem you have in the conservatory,possibly one of the things I mentioned earlier.

Corgi Guy.