Guarantor for dd's flat

HHH_2

does she know about your debts and the financial ( not to mention emotional) pressure she is putting you under? Perhaps if she knew the extent of your debts she might have her LBM and realise how you are struggling with finances too. It's so easy to hide from ones debts isnt it until one day you have to face up to them, she hasnt yet reached that point by the looks of things. on the plus side you sound like a really good caring parent so in the long term she's likely to turn out ok!

Claw_back_money

Thanks all for your suggestions and support. We read them all really carefully before phoning her again last night.
She has spoken to the landlord now, and he has given her until Tuesday to come up with a solution. OH told her that if she wanted to talk things through or any other help then she would have to phone us. I'm really relieved that she has to move out soon, so this problem can't go on getting worse and worse.
She asked about coming home in the summer, about rent her. We said that we would expect a contribution of £50. Hopefully in time she will feel about this as Lucy1982 does!
We're not sure how we can make her get a better job, although agree completely that she needs to do that.
Elsewhere - no, we didn't take insurance -sounds great though.

I told the landlord that we'd phone him by the weekend, so we'll see what he has to say tomorrow. Then, what she has decided by Tuesday. I guess we'll have to put our hands in our pockets and will have to work out where to get the money from.

She's a clever girl, and did really well at school including maths A level! I wish they'd taught a bit more about money-sense, and that goes for me too - by living slightly over our income for 8 years we're in a bit of a pickle... it took the threat of redundancy to make us look long and hard at what we were doing. I guess she's learnt by our rubbish example.
Thanks all
Cbm

Claw_back_money

HHH wrote: »

does she know about your debts and the financial ( not to mention emotional) pressure she is putting you under? Perhaps if she knew the extent of your debts she might have her LBM and realise how you are struggling with finances too. It's so easy to hide from ones debts isnt it until one day you have to face up to them, she hasnt yet reached that point by the looks of things. on the plus side you sound like a really good caring parent so in the long term she's likely to turn out ok!

She considers that we have a good income as we both work in reasonably well-paid jobs, and doesn't think about the rest.
I really wish the long term would hurry up so we can see her turn out ok!

Thinking about it, my biggest fears are: her being homeless and cut off from us... or her going to a loanshark and getting in a bigger mess.

Then the selfish fears: her coming home to live and not getting a job, then us/me having the stress of someone staying in bed most of the day, and leaving her mess for me to clean up because she 'didn't have time' to sort it before going out for the evening. The rows that led to were horrendous, but largely ineffective. And being an expensive squatter that generates enormous bills, 20 minutes showers etc. And DS2 (who has aspergers) getting into a muddle as she manipulates him into taking her side.
Woe!!!!!!!!!!! She is actually a really lovely girl / young woman.

Is it really really wrong to hope she either doesn't come home, or has grown up loads in the last couple of months and doesn't use those behaviours any more. How do you set ground rules for people of 21, that you don't really want to throw out onto the streets.

Sorry for ranting
Cbm

HHH_2

It might be a good idea to show her this thread and get her a bit more on your side. Most young people dont consider how things are for those on the receiving end of their behaviour coz they're to busy being that age and all it entails! It does seem like an entirely selfish phase and she wont be alone in that! You obviously care a great deal but I bet she thinks you're being a pain! If she thinks you're ok finacially because you earn well she probably does need to see the awful reality of being in debt. Show her in black and white after all it doesnt matter how much you earn, if your out goings are more than your income you're skint! You dont have to be the strong adult all the time you know you could show her how badly this affecting you and if she doent listen even then at least you know the worst. Sadly it does seem you will have to pay up as that's what a guarantor does. theres a Budhist ( I think) saying which says something like dont worry about the things you cant change do something about the things you can. So just concentrate on what you can do and dont think about the what ifs. Easy for me to say I know!

floss2

Claw_back_money wrote: »

She considers that we have a good income as we both work in reasonably well-paid jobs, and doesn't think about the rest.......Then the selfish fears: her coming home to live and not getting a job, then us/me having the stress of someone staying in bed most of the day, and leaving her mess for me to clean up because she 'didn't have time' to sort it before going out for the evening. The rows that led to were horrendous, but largely ineffective. And being an expensive squatter that generates enormous bills, 20 minutes showers etc. And DS2 (who has aspergers) getting into a muddle as she manipulates him into taking her side.
Woe!!!!!!!!!!! She is actually a really lovely girl / young woman.

Is it really really wrong to hope she either doesn't come home, or has grown up loads in the last couple of months and doesn't use those behaviours any more. How do you set ground rules for people of 21, that you don't really want to throw out onto the streets.

Sorry for ranting
Cbm

I know exactly how you feel - you want to help her & see her right as caring parents, but you dread the inevitable turmoil that her moving back home will bring, as well as the thought of living with another adult. Believe me, we've had some soul searching to do, as both my DS's should have graduated the same summer & we had to plan on the basis that at least 1 may come home.

However, that doesn't help you at the moment. So, the however-many step program to being the parent of adult children!

1. Treat her as an adult - be honest with her and tell her of your financial situation.
2. Offer a fair rent and define what she gets for that amount - does it include laundry / ironing / keeping room clean / meals etc
3. Calculate the extra cost on utilities of her being home - when I moved to my mums, I paid the difference between gas/elec/water readings the previous year to when I moved in....nominal really, but it helps you & shows her you are serious.
4. Set reasonable expectations with regard to work -maybe a plan to help her get a good job, timescale in which to have moved to full-time work etc.
5. Don't be too heavy handed - I know you wouldn't, but don't treat her "like a child" with regard to "you have to get a job"-type orders.
6. Ask her to suggest her "rules" for an agreement between you - for example, she may want a lie-in on a Sunday, she may offer to babysit for a regular night-out for you & OH
7. Stress that all this is for both of you to enjoy/appreciate her being at home, and for her to get onto her feet - not for ever!

Hope that helps a bit - and makes you smile too

Floss (deranged mother of 2 students!)

Claw_back_money

floss2 wrote: »

I know exactly how you feel - you want to help her & see her right as caring parents, but you dread the inevitable turmoil that her moving back home will bring, as well as the thought of living with another adult. Believe me, we've had some soul searching to do, as both my DS's should have graduated the same summer & we had to plan on the basis that at least 1 may come home.

Thats it exactly. And (like you I guess) not knowing how long it will be for, and what it is going to mean in practical terms. She and your DS are probably thinking similar things though. :rolleyes:
We have tried discussing our debts before, to which her response has been that we are trying to make her feel guilty. When we've met subsequently and I've tried to talk about money in a helpful and non-judgemental way her reply is 'my money is fine - how is YOURS'.
When I gave her examples of saving (the one I used was when I was working nights, and worked 2 extra nights to get the ££ for a dishwasher) her response was 'so how come you didn't work extra hours to help me'. :mad: Working extra hours for anyone's benefit isn't an option now I'm working full time days, but thats not really the point is it, as she is an adult and could be working full time herself.
We need to phone the landlord today, and DD again. Not looking forward to either conversation!
Cbm

Keeping_Positive

Dont mean to be harsh but she is certainly not acting like an adult at the moment by throwing everything back at you. Good luck with the LL and you daughter today.

moanymoany

Wow, does this bring back memories!

The best piece of advice (based on experience) I can give you is to tell her she cannot come home to live. Why do I say this? She will drive you MAD - she won't pay any rent despite her promises - if she won't pay a legal landlord, she won't pay you. Pay the rent as you have to because you are guarantors and think it an expensive lesson well learnt.

She will disrupt your lives and you will be miserable until you are driven to chuck her out.

You have given her a better start in life than most of us get. You have encouraged her to get an education and 'nursed' her so far and she is 21. It was her decision to throw it all away and behave like a prat.

If you take responsibility for her irresponsible lifestyle onto your shoulders now, you will not only find it makes you miserable and unhappy, but it will not help her to stop fannying about and take responsibility for herself. 21 is quite old enough to do that.

The more you do the more you may.

If you do let her come home, it won't be long before you think to yourselves - moany was absolutely right!

ZTD

Claw_back_money wrote: »

When I gave her examples of saving (the one I used was when I was working nights, and worked 2 extra nights to get the ££ for a dishwasher) her response was 'so how come you didn't work extra hours to help me'. :mad:

For better reasons than your daughter had for not working extra hours to help herself.

SingleSue

Very difficult one this....

At her age I was married and owned my own home plus having an income (a very good one at that!) and completely independent of my parents....now I am single, in rented housing and mum and dad have been a wonderful bank to help me out on occasions (always paid back in full on weekly terms without them asking for it)!

For me, it was my parents instilling in me the work ethic, I never received pocket money unless I did chores and once I got a part time job, pocket money ceased (age 12) ..plus I was the middle child and was sort of rather hissy and independent anyway. Nowadays though, in trying to instill those same values in my children, we find we hit a brick wall as apart from a paper round (which Eldest son has been on the list for the last 3 years!) employers want the 'children' to be 16....too late in my book for them to get any kind of idea of standing on their own two feet.

Not sure really what to suggest as your daughter probably is only doing what society expects nowadays and probably has friends who have parents who provide any wants (this is the one thrown at me by eldest son when I say no we haven't got the money!) but maybe if you try again to explain your own difficulties with money it may eventually get through ...... or you may even have to get tough, in a way, give her a lesson or two on life (not the nicest thing I know).

No matter what age our children, we never stop being parents and we can never resist opening the bank of mum and dad to help them out of a tight spot..... I know as I use the bank of mum and dad a fair bit and I am 38! But on the same token, we also need to make sure they stand on their own and take responsibilty for the basics.