Building Insurance on an older Flat that has suffered 'Historical Movement'

bigdon

I am writing for advice on getting buildings insurance on a flat that has previously suffered from what the surveyor of the flat described as 'historical movement'. Since I bought the property in mid 2006 I have only renewed my buidlings insurance with Norwich Union via a broker in Edinburgh. The reasons for this are as follows:

1. During the purchase of the flat I had used a broker that had recommended by me by London and County, Clarke Roxburgh. They had badly let me down as I had been solely relying on them to give a quotation and then they had said that nobody they had contacted would be willing to insure for subsidence and landslip without a full structural engineers report (why they couldn't have told me earlier than about a week before the purchase was settled is anyones guess, very unimpressed).
2. Both my solicitor and my surveyor had seemed not to believe that the movement was anything to worry about. The surveyors own words were 'there was no evidence to suggest that this was serious or recent'. Being a first time buyer I took their word for it (maybe that makes me a fool, but there you go).
3. I ended up approaching a local broker who got me a buildings insurance policy with Norwich Union on normal terms very shortly before I moved into the property.

So in short I am fully covered by insurance if anything does go wrong. My dilemma comes when it is renewal time (roughly the middle of June). Anytime I look at the online screen scrapers they always have a check box saying has your property suffered from 'ground movement / subsidence'. If this box is checked, then instantly all companies say absolutely no chance mate, your on your own.

And strictly speaking the property does have movement, so I phoned the surveyor who did the original survey to ask about what I can legitimately say to an insurance company without it coming back to bite me in the !!!! at a later date if somehow it the property did develop serious structural problems. However as it is around 125 years old, and as far as I am aware has never been underpinned, nor undertaken anyother serious structural remedies there is no real reason to believe that this will happen but its just not a risk I am willing to take given the price of such a repair.

My surveyor told me that whereas the property has shown movement in the past, there is not evidence that it was serious or that the property was still moving. He suggested talking to a broker, and that the surveyors would be willing to speak to insurance companies to say that as far they could tell during their survey, no recent or ongoing movement was observed.

So has anyone had a similar experience with an older property, and what do you say to the insurance companies to ensure that you are fully covered? I am also going to ask my neighbours who they are insured with as they must have the same issue when getting insurance.

Oscar_The_Grouch

Historical movement could be anything from original settlement when the property was built to an old drain that collapsed under the property. It does not indicate that your home has previously suffered from subsidence. If I were you, I would ask your surveyor to confirm what he believes is the cause of the problem and whether it relates to subsidence. Ask him to send you a letter (he may charge, but it's probably worth it) and if he confirms there is no subsidence, don't declare it!!

twiglets_2

Hi Bigdon - I know you posted this a while back but I wondered what the outcome was for you because I've now got a similar problem. I bought my house 4 years ago (as a FTB) and I was told there was some historic movement but no signs of recent movement. It didn't seem to be too much of an issue so I never even thought I had to declare it to my insurers and noone ever told me I needed to.

I've now just tried to sell my house and their surveyor has been very cautious about the issue of the movement and reckons it should have been declared or I might not be covered! Scary stuff and I just don't know what to do. I'd be really interested to know what you've done?

thanks

gettingcranking

I have a house with historical movemenet, when we insured it it asked if there was sign of subsidence so we said no, it didn't ask about historical movement. Anybody out there in the same situation?

i240_Dan

ADVICE NEEDED!

I am currently in the process of buying a property.

I have just received the valuation report and building and contents insurance quote.

The quote is £74.10 per month (£889.20 anually).

I presume the quote is high for a few reasons.

1) There was an exposed water course which ran past the property. Has this week been piped, backfilled and a normal sized grate placed over the top. So less chance of it causing a problem.

2) There is a stream about 100m from the house although at least 50m lower and a number of lakes in the area.

3) The main reason I can see which would not have been highlighted in a normal postal code check, (which I did and found that we are not on a flood plain) is a note on the Valuation Report.

This states, "The property shows signs of longstanding movement. This is unlikely to be progressive and saleability is unlikely to be affected. No specialist advice is required."

Now I have the problem of is that necessary to declare to an insurance company?

Like a post on this thread states, as soon as you tick the box for signs of movement you are refered by phone and they tell you that they cannot help you.

The evidence of longstanding movement is a line down one rear wall where the pointing has opened up and then been re-pointed at some point.

The house is an 1850's stone end terrace and to me that is a very long period of time to stand without moving at all.

The reaction I seem to get when calling insurers gives the impression that this is very rare. However just driving arround I have noticed many older houses with similar joins arround windows etc. Is it that people are not mentioning these to their insurers?

I cannot really get any quotes from brokers over the phone as I do not yet have a completion date, so have been told to wait for that.

I would just like some advice on whether long standing movement is classed as subsidence and a list of companies which may be able to help me.

Thanks

Daniel

moonwolf_3

iam in exactly the same situation as i240 dan and would also just like some advice on whether historic non progresive movement due to settlement is classed as subsidence and a list of companies which may be able to help me.
many thanks NIk

toja

Funny, I am buying a house too and just received my survey - there is evidence about some minor movement in the past but it is not progressive - the house is 1900 Victorian. Am I in trouble?

moonwolf_3

Am I in trouble?

toja, well our surveyor suggested making sure we we covered insurance wise fully , if you are looking for insurance, you will probably have the same difficulties as us.

cant use the comparison sites, and lots of the insurers we rang wount cover when we disclosed even though it was non progressive and historical movement. guess we didnt need to disclose , but should we need to claim then they would have asked if we knew about it and if it came up in survey.

we got insured through NFU, they were great and dont panic too much about historical movement/ settlement as they are aware that most older buildings wihh have some settlement.

had to fax them a copy of the survey.. and they covered us. premium wasnt too hiked up either;)
best of luck with your purchase

toja

moonwolf do you mind me asking how much is your premium? I was expecting standard building insurance somewhat around £20-25 per month (was told that it was standard for what I am buying), so how much more I can expect to be paying?

moonwolf_3

toja, give NFU a ring.. whats nice is they have a local officre and you get to speak to a real person and they are friendly!

building contents.
rebuild costs £180,00
2 bed semi
year built 1600 to 1919
with accidental damage
over 4yrs no claims discount 30%
voluntary excess £100
subsidence excess £1,000
employers liability £10,000,000 per claim
public liability £2,500,000
pollution and cntamination £2,500,000
personal legal expenses £50,000

£379.32 so about £31 month

toja

Thanks for the breakdown. Tried calling NFU, they say they will not give quote for property without mortice locks and lockable windows. Oh my gosh, what I am going to do now?

moonwolf wrote: »

toja, give NFU a ring.. whats nice is they have a local officre and you get to speak to a real person and they are friendly!

building contents.
rebuild costs £180,00
2 bed semi
year built 1600 to 1919
with accidental damage
over 4yrs no claims discount 30%
voluntary excess £100
subsidence excess £1,000
employers liability £10,000,000 per claim
public liability £2,500,000
pollution and cntamination £2,500,000
personal legal expenses £50,000

£379.32 so about £31 month