Rail, fares to be "simplified"

digitaltoast

I first contacted Arriva Cross Country, ATOC and Passenger Focus on 28th April to ask about these tickets price increases of over 100%. Since then, I have also contacted them and my MP in writing (only my MP has replied). Passenger Focus and ATOC couldn't have been less interested.

Last week, I was contacted by Vikki Miller from the Sunday Telegraph, who had heard my podcast and read similar travellers tales of unfair fares. Over the next couple of days, she and I put together a story (I put quite a lot of effort in too!).

Late on Friday evening, I got a phone call to say she had been called back by Arriva Cross Country.

Apparently, they (Arrive Cross Country) had "discovered", on Wednesday 14th May (over 2 weeks after I'd contacted them) an error in the way the tickets had been entered onto the system. (An error...yeah right! Sussed out, more like)

However, despite tens of thousands of people booking tickets with at least a £10 premium on them because of the incorrect fare, there was no way of refunding them apparently! So, Arriva do well to the tune of... £50,000? £100,000? Who knows.

The result is that the story was watered down a bit - I still think it's a shame this angle wasn't covered - I think she missed a trick there. However, I'm guessing her intervention shook them up slightly and hopefully the result will be the proper priced tickets again.

However, I have just checked at 08:40 on Sunday 18th May 2008 and despite them having "discovered" the mistake5 days ago, the incorrect fare is still showing on the National Rail website. So this story may have a little further to run...watch this space!

Here's the story in the Sunday Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1975998/Train-fare-overhaul-triples-certain-prices.html

ticketcollector

Its not that easy to "update" prices just like that.
It has to go through several hurdles before reaching the public RJIS database.

Firstly fares are only updated weekly, and then they have to have been approved by ATOC and the TOCs who share from the fare.

If a TOC rejects the fare revision then ATOC have to sort it out between them both, while this is going on the price stays the same.

digitaltoast

Hey, do I have an update for YOU!

EDIT: Finally, the MSE weekly email has picked up on this!
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=925991

Following on from my earlier post exposing the train fares scam since the "simplification", I have an update:
Cross Country admit the wrongly priced ticket are STILL on sale - even though they say they've know about them for a week (since last Wed - even though I first contacted them on 29th April!)

And yet, a letter from Arriva XC arrived this very morning - the key sentence is:
"Value tickets are now being charged based on the milage[sic] used. I can confirm the cots[sic] of your tickets are correct and in line with the CossCountrys[sic] fare structure for Value tickets".

Here's where we are now - I phoned ATOC, passenger focus, Virgin and Cross Country. They all blame each other, and after I gave up with the interweb and call centres, I went into a ticket office, and a helpful man looked at his official fare book, scratched his head, looked at something else, scratched his head again, looked puzzled and explained:

"I don't understand this - according to the official fare book from ATOC, your ticket has gone up from £12 to £16 but that £16 fare isn't shown as existing in the ticket system, another part of which says that the cheapest fare is £19.50 but that doesn't exist either, and the cheapest ticket I can now find on the system is £21 which is an incorrect fare which it won't let me book".

He then rubbed his head in his hands and explained that basically, the whole thing had been a nightmare and that just today they had found another anomaly which meant that a certain Cross Country first class fare was £72 more than it should have been!

I tell you, this thing is going to blow up big time - but it's taking more time and energy than I have. Can anyone help me with this? I need a fares expert and a media expert - I've contacted the Western Mail, Daily Telegraph, You and Yours and Moneybox. I need help pushing this story out to more media though, and with more rock-solid examples of how the public are being ripped off by this scam.

I've written a full blog post about it, with screenshots and everything to prove the points...
http://www.digitaltoast.co.uk/more-simplified-train-fare-scams-and-lies

moonrakerz

digitaltoast wrote: »

I tell you, this thing is going to blow up big time - but it's taking more time and energy than I have. Can anyone help me with this? I need a fares expert and a media expert - I've contacted the Western Mail, Daily Telegraph, You and Yours and Moneybox. I need help pushing this story out to more media though, and with more rock-solid examples of how the public are being ripped off by this scam.

The problem you will now have of course, is that all the "unsimplified" fares have gone off the websites, so when you quote the old fares the rail companies will say this is "Heresay" and you will have no way of proving otherwise. They, literally, will hold all the cards !

digitaltoast

moonrakerz wrote: »

The problem you will now have of course, is that all the "unsimplified" fares have gone off the websites, so when you quote the old fares the rail companies will say this is "Heresay" and you will have no way of proving otherwise. They, literally, will hold all the cards !

Not a hope - saddo's like me have got many screenshots sitting on their computers, and I didn't realise this until I got invited to the RailUK forums, but apparently their are official (but hidden away) online versions of the fares manual, and people on the forums have back copies. Plus I have a recording of the phone calls talking about old and new prices. I think I've got them nicely stitched up :rotfl:

moonrakerz

digitaltoast wrote: »

I think I've got them nicely stitched up :rotfl:

Well done ! :T

ticketcollector

I am a fares expert or at least I claim to be working for a TOC.

The fares manual is a public document and can be seen if requested, however be aware that its huge (going on 10,000 pages) and there are 7 of them, but since this month its now online electronically only at https://www.frpp.tso.co.uk (but i cant give you a login).
The old Fares Manual you are referring to can be found at http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1241783 but I would suggest you dont buy it as it is a waste of cash.

I also have access to a 'live' ticket office machine which shows all fares.

moonrakerz

Hmmmmm !

The more I look at this this new simplified fares structure, the more it appears to be a version of the "2p cut in income tax" trick. ie: I give you 2p here, but take 10p back there !

I have been looking (again) at the fares to London Waterloo ex Bristol TM.
The cheap fares only seem to be available by booking well in advance.
Previously I could get an APEX ret to Waterloo for £18.60 by booking one week in advance. Booking one week in advance now the cheapest ticket is £31.
If I book two months in advance I can get a ret for £11.80 (2 singles) or even 1st class for £21.10 - very good - but most people cannot book with certainty that far in advance.
What makes it even more bizarre is the selection of trains the tickets can be used on.
Every year there are threats of SWT taking off the Waterloo to Bristol service because of lack of traffic. This is hardly surprising as many of the cheap tickets are not usable on these trains, in fact on some of the journeys I have costed, the through services don't even appear at any price !

I think the final piece of stupidity in this simplification exercise is the fact that on one page, on the same day, there are 5 different fares, ranging from £5.95 to £17.80, ALL called a "Standard Advance Single", Simplification - my "donkey" !!

dzug1

moonrakerz wrote: »

I think the final piece of stupidity in this simplification exercise is the fact that on one page, on the same day, there are 5 different fares, ranging from £5.95 to £17.80, ALL called a "Standard Advance Single", Simplification - my "donkey" !!

Well yes.

But previously they'd have been called 5 different things, so it IS simpler!!:rotfl:

I knew you wouldn't believe me........

Gacker

ticketcollector wrote: »

Dont bother wasting your time trying to get the difference refunded. I have told three different people to write into Customer Services using your "but i've paid more" argument and two of them came back to show me the CS letters. They wrote back saying "tough" in two A4 pages of text...

Oh dear. But my original quotation (as posted at 1.40pm on 17/05) with regard to my suggestion that it was wrong to have sold non-railcard-discounted tickets before 24 April for travel after 18 May, when railcard discounts are now universally available, was actually a quotation from a Customer Relations Adviser at a train operating company. I quote her again: "I will happily refund the difference for you on the ticket ... I will happily ensure a cheque is issued for the difference". I quote me again: "... a gentle prod is definitely worth trying!" Recent posts seem increasingly to suggest that the only consistent element in this fares farrago is a stupendously high level of inconsistency and incompetence!