Adams credit card!!!!!

Clairel29

Hi

MIL was burgeled last week (another story) however she knew (well thought) that she had an adams store card, so did not panic so much about reporting that stoled. However gets a phone call to say that £2000 has been spent on it and it turns out that it was an Adams Mastercard.

Does anyone know if we can claim this money back from Adams on the understanding that it was given to her as a store card.

Thanks all

Claire

Rafter

Claire,

I'm sure it was made clear on the application form and details that it was a full mastercard.

Unless you report it lost or stolen I think you are responsible for the loss.

She may be insured in another way through household insurance but there don't seem to be grounds for a claim otherwise.

R.

nomoneytoday

Surely if a store has accepted a stolen card then there can be no charge to the customer - as long as it's reported stolen?

Clairel29

nomoneytoday wrote: »

Surely if a store has accepted a stolen card then there can be no charge to the customer - as long as it's reported stolen?

Hi

I think they used it in Asda and tesco through the chip & pin service. Yes she left them in her bag with them. So we know we have no come back as far as that was concered.

It was more the fact, was she sold a store card or credit card.

Thanks anyway.

Claire

NickX

nomoneytoday wrote: »

Surely if a store has accepted a stolen card then there can be no charge to the customer - as long as it's reported stolen?

Yes but I think the OP is saying that they didn't report it stolen.

To be honest even if it was just a store card, you should still have reported it stolen - you never know, that store may be one of the thieve's favourite.

There is no way that you can prove that it was the thief that made these purchases as you didn't report it stolen. Very unlucky.

Richard019

You could always try telling them about the burglary and saying you didn't realise until later that you were missing your Adams credit card. They can verify the burglary with the police crime number.

If they've used them in Tesco and Asda they'll be on CCTV. I would try finding out whether the perp. was male or female. As daft as it sounds if they were male you might have a chance of an out. Obviously when it was signatures cashiers received the card and one of the first checks would be the title of the person - whether the signature matched or not you wouldn't accept a card belonging to Mrs Joan Smith being presented by man. Now when Chip and Pin came in we were told to try to carry out the same basic security checks.

I could be wrong, but I thought that came from the banks. If that's the case you could try claiming some of it as Tesco/Asda's responsibility for not detecting it. It's a very remote chance but it could help you.

CannyJock

Clairel29 wrote: »

I think they used it in Asda and tesco through the chip & pin service. Yes she left them in her bag with them.

Are you saying that she had the pin numbers in her bag with the cards? What's for definite is that if she admits having the pin numbers with the cards then the card companies will laugh her out from a liability point of view. Even where chips are decoded to decypher the pins the bank are denying liability on the basis that their systems are fool proof, which most definitely isn't the case.

Not sure on the current state of play, but I know from an insider that large supermarkets were considering implementing "close CCTV" systems to zoom in on "open till" activity. Have saw this used in other countries aimed at spotting employee till fraud, but has the added benefit of recording who is at the till at the time and an idea of what they're buying (like the guy walks out with two mountain bikes then comes back the next day to the customer services desk to compain that he's been charged for 2 bikes instead of 1 - actual case - result was to punch in their till receipt number and watch the CCTV footage of them wheeling out 2 bikes )

Something for the police to trace, but not too late to get them involved I'd say - theft is theft.

simongregson

You friend's liability is a maximum of £50. I refer you to the below information..

I posted this in another thread, it may be of some help, although it would need adapting for your case...

---

Your credit card is issued subject to a consumer credit agreement and as such your liability is limited to £50 in the case of fraudulent transactions. Write to your bank, ask for the money back. If they say no,
ask for a 'deadlock letter' and refer on to the ombudsman.

Two facts support you:

You have taken reasonable care with your PIN, as you stored it in a password protected area of your phone.
Your liability is limited by the consumer credit act.


'83.—(1) The debtor under a regulated consumer credit agreement shall not be liable to the creditor for any loss arising from use of the credit facility by another person not acting, or to be treated as acting, as the debtor's agent. (2) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, or to any loss in so far as it arises from misuse of an instrument to which section 4 of the Cheques Act 1957 applies.
84.—(1) Section 83 does not prevent the debtor under a credit-token agreement from being made liable to the extent of £30 (or the credit limit if lower) for loss to the creditor arising from use of the credit-token by other persons during a period beginning when the credit-token ceases to be in the possession of any authorised person and ending when the credit-token is once more in the possession of an authorised person.
(2) Section 83 does not prevent the debtor under a credit token agreement from being made liable to any extent for loss to the creditor from use of the credit-token by a person who acquired possession of it with the debtor's consent. '

Note you did not consent for the thief to have posession of your card, even if you had recorded the PIN somewhere.

Also:

'(4) In proceedings brought by the creditor under a credit token agreement— (a) it is for the creditor to prove that the credit-token was lawfully supplied to the debtor, and was accepted by him, and (b) if the debtor alleges that any use made of the credit token was not authorised by him, it is for the creditor to prove either— (i) that the use was so authorised, or
(ii) that the use occurred before the creditor had been given notice under section 84(3). '


Note that the max liability is now £50, the quote above is from the consumer credit act. I would include it in your complaint.

p1an0player

Thanks Simon for providing an answer that was based on fact.

exel1966

simongregson wrote: »

Two facts support you:

You have taken reasonable care with your PIN, as you stored it in a password protected area of your phone.

Where has the OP said this ? Reasonable care has not been taken in that the card and pin number were left together. Are you suggesting she lie to the police and to the bank ? Much better to present the true facts to the police and let them do their job.
The OP also has also failed to report the card stolen, therefore possibly limiting the liability of the card company. [STRIKE]I've tried to locate the T&C's of this card online, but haven't as yet, but I'm sure it will state this within.[/STRIKE]

Unless proof can be found via the police/stores that it was the thieves who used the card Sygma are unlikely to accept it was used fraudulentlty due to the pin number being used at the time of transaction.
Now we all know that chip and pin is not as secure as banks like to make us believe and many examples of this have been shown so hopefully the proof will be found.

Edit : The T&C's are here

10.1 You, and any Additional Cardholder, must keep the Card, PIN and Card number in a safe place at all times and not let any person know the PIN or Card number. The PIN should be memorised and kept secret and the notification destroyed as soon as it is received.
10.2 Any PIN issued by us is at our discretion and we may refuse to issue a PIN without stating a reason.
10.3 If the Card, Card number or PIN is lost, stolen or likely to be misused by someone who has obtained it without your consent, you must immediately notify us by telephoning SYGMA BANK UK on 0870 240 6124 and confirm this to us in writing within seven days by writing to: The Customer Service Centre, Sygma Bank UK, Equipoint, Coventry Road, Yardley, Birmingham B25 8FE.
10.4 We may require you to assist the police with their investigation and recovery of the Card. You authorize us to provide appropriate information to any relevant person in connection with the loss, theft or possible misuse of the Card, Card number or PIN.
10.5 If your, or an Additional Cardholder’s, Card, PIN or Card number is misused before you notify us as above, you will only have to pay us up to £50 for misuse. If you, or an Additional Cardholder, consent to, or permit, the Card, PIN or Card number to be misused or act fraudulently or with gross negligence, you may be liable for ALL losses.

Clause 10.5 may suggest you have grounds not to be liable.

simongregson

exel1966 wrote: »

Where has the OP said this ? Reasonable care has not been taken in that the card and pin number were left together.

As I said, I posted the same post in another thread, it will need adapting for the poster's circumstances.

The law which regulates the agreement will take precedence over the terms and conditions. The law which regulates the agreement is the consumer credit act. It makes interesting reading as it makes no reference to gross negligence whatsoever. As long as the cardholder has not given permission for another person to use the card, her liability is limited.

It will be perfectly possible for the poster to prove that it was not her that used the card, for example a witness, receipts from a shop, CCTV footage from any cameras near the bank etc. It is for her bank to prove that it was her.