Interest rates for TheONE Account staying up

halifax71

Not sure whether this got as much coverage here as it did with Barclays FirstPlus customers but one of our merry band of complainers was interviewed on the BBC Moneybox programme. Link below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/8146083.stm

As i've said above our issues are similar in that the bank are manipulating the Terms & Conditions to maximise their profits. This is unfair and against the UTCCR - even the interviewed "expert" agrees.

Hopefully Georgeone is the first in a long line of people to bring the banks to task.

No one expects something for nothing, but the banks need to play fair. As mentioned above in my case the banks profit on my debt has gone from 68% to 513% in 3 years. Oh yeah but my house value had gone down a bit so that justifies it :mad:

georgeone

halifax71
I'm sorry but I have not implied that the decision in my case has far reaching implications for the whole banking sector. I do not believe it has. Not least because I have little knowledge of other banks' specific practices with variable rate mortgages that were accompanied by clear and persistent marketing "promises", "guarantees" and "commitments" to match BoE rate changes. One very significant part of the adjudication in my favour was the clear existence - backed up by evidence I provided (go back in this thread - I think, from memory, or may be a very similar one - to find such evidence) that such promises, guarantees and commitments had been clearly made, over a two year period, and that despite what the contract terms may have said, I could expect to rely on said promises, guarantees and commitments, and had clearly done so for some 10 years. I think that succinctly summarises one part of the reason for the decision in my favour - and to my mind overwhelmingly the main basis for the decision.

So for anyone not a Virgin customer I'm intrigued to know how this decision will affect you. Have you similarly had a variable rate mortgage where there was any implied or explicit promise, outside the Ts & Cs, to vary the rate in any predictable way?

It is clear to me that the two year period within which I was consistently led to believe, and rely on such clearly and publicly made promises etc, was critical to the decision. The UTCCR part of the decision is perhaps less critical but I cannot be certain. Essentially the case is that the mortgage was covered by the 1994 Regulations and whilst the Ts&Cs gave the bank the power to change the interest rate at will it was not clear that I could dissolve the mortgage contract immediately because to do so would incur significant costs. It is implied in the decision's wording that their power to change the rate at will without the basis for such a change being clear, enabled me to dissolve the contract but it was unfair because of the costs I would incur in so doing.

Some might say that this does have wide ranging ramifications, as ANY variable rate mortgage is likely to not specify when/how/why the rate WILL be changed. However, I cannot believe that this alone would enable millions of mortgages to consist of unfair terms. Millions of variable rate mortgages were not accompanied by clear and consistent promises that were clearly intended to induce customers to rely on them. If there was never any consistent rhyme or reason for timing and amount of rate changes and no expectation given that there would be a reliable basis for changes, then I would be surprised if the FOS would find in anyone's favour on that basis alone. But I AM NOT A LAWYER! ;-)

My view (and it is ONLY that) is that the first part of my post above is the most critical and that only when THOSE circumstances are combined with the background issue of the UTCCR that a decision in my favour becomes possible.

Well - that's my interpretation of what I have here from the FOS but I will go back and re-read it all again to check and reconsider if need be. If anyone who IS a Virgin customer and who took out a mortgage about 10 years ago, when they first launched and were making these promises, wants to PM me with an email address, then I may consider making information about how my complaint was worded available to you. (I am being slightly cautious about sharing all the detailed paperwork until I see the final reaction from the bank, for reasons I am not able to share here.)

Saran_2

Well, I am encouraged by the first reason you have covered. I started with Virgin back in 2000 and received all the "promises" and have had the account operated in line with those for all that time.

When my complaint finally reaches an adjudicator I would hope that a consistent approach will be taken and a positive result achieved. Like you say though, I cannot see OA volunteering to repay anything without being forced to.

Wonder how 'difficult' it will be to continue with OA ( I still like the concept ) if they do have to repay interest. I'd better read those changed T&C's very carefully!

p.s.

"their power to change the rate at will without the basis for such a change being clear"

This has been and continues to be a major concern of mine regarding how the account is operated. It is now totally unclear what their interest rate policy is and with rates set to rise, a very real worry that they will maintain 'crunch' margins after it is all over.

halifax71

Thanks for the reply - apologies if i've misinterpreted but you did say that your judgement may have wider implications.

This does still sound relevant. There have been "clear and persistent" messages given in that rates have moved pretty much in line with BoE rates for the length of the agreement, until recently. This in effect resulted in an implied term. Although not as concrete as your guarantee it had the same effect of reliance on predictabiliy.

I hope you can change your stance on sharing the information in the ruling. By all means wait until the bank act on the ruling but don't think this has no relevance to others because i believe it may do.

georgeone

Saran
Good luck.
My only advice is that should you not get an initial decision in your favour (which I did not, because the first review simply said "variable mortgage, Ts&Cs") exercise your right to take it to an Ombudsman. If it still does not go your way you could ask what the difference between your case is and other similar ones where you know the decision went in the complainant's favour.
FYI I provided a lengthy, well-argued case with at least three separate items of clear evidence of these promises, commitments and guarantees (different word being used in each case, I believe, from memory). When did you submit your complaint and what stage has it reached?

georgeone

Halifax
Sorry - forgot I wrote that - I probably meant wider implications (a) for other Virgin customers and (b) for banks whose advertising does not match their Ts&Cs and behaviour. Of course my views given earlier re unfair contract terms are not based on a detailed professional legal interpretation so I cannot say what implications might be. On face of it this decision appears to imply ANY variable mortgage Ts and Cs where basis for changes is not set out so as to predictable at outset is unfair - but I simply fail to believe this can be the case, had this been the only basis of my complaint I doubt it would have got anywhere.

Incipience

Will Be interesting to see the complete ruling as this may help millions of others

georgeone

As said above - PM me with an email address. (and I doubt "millions"!) ;-)

Saran_2

georgeone,

Complaint lodged with FOS in January following on from OA complaint procedure starting in November. Still waiting for adjudictor to be assigned (they apologised as they are VERY busy at the moment - I wonder why?). Complaint based on the 'promise' letter and the 'treating customers fairly charter'.

I hope that the FOS wil be flexible enough to realise that I am not a lawyer or legal expert and apply similar principles to people in the same situation.

As an aside it would be interesting to know how many customers are still with OA from the early days as they all could potentially go through the FOS process and benefit if it works out! It is a shame that once a set of criteria have been established as unfair that OA do not have to automatically re-imburse the affected customers.

georgeone

I don't think it is a question of automatically doing ANYTHING even if a set of criteria are in place, because basically the FOS works on the basis of individual complaints. Customerrs have to complain to get anything. It may not be the best system but it is the one we have ...

Of course if the FSA were aware that a bank was in general not treatging its customers fairly or was actively mis-selling then that would result in sanctions on the bank. Even in mis-selling situations (e.g. PPI) my belief is that individual customers have to come forward and make a claim/complaint. (Happy to be told I am wrong, by someone more au fait with things)

Working on getting a good quality redacted scan of all docs at work this week. Have seen your PM, Saran, and will respond.