handmade bread

zippychick

northwest1965 wrote: »

I'm having my 1st real go at making bread by hand this weekend. I watched Econ Gastronomy this week and Paul made bread. He only left it to prove once, knocked it back, shaped it and in the oven it went. From what I read most of you let it prove twice. Is the proving once method, any better?

I noticed that, but in the recipe online (i made it last night) it does suggest proving it a second time for 15 minutes - but they didnt show this so it was confusing.

My understanding (im still learning) is the second prove is more important as it is giving the light texture . I looked up alink last night where jamie explains the stages of bread well - here

but then again there are recipes with no kneading, and no proving which seem to defy the rules . I don't quite understand that yet !

marmalize

i understand NONE of it...it's all weird magic to me...and frankly quite confusing....am trying the no knock back recipe again..it worked yesterday so today i am trying it in a loaf tin to get a proper comparison with other loaves i have made in the traditional manner...if it works i shall stick to this method as it is very quick(i can cook a loaf in the time it takes to cook the rest of the dinner(more or less)...soooo i shall let you know if it worked later..:think:


aaand i'm back...yep worked just fine....although i've been that busy 'messing ' with the bread that i have forgot to put the meatloaf in the oven for dinner eek..

zippychick

just a question - for a reason. I watched Rachel Allen make bread on her show a while back,and i remember her using her finger to poke the bread - and that indicated if it was at the right stage. Hard to explain..... So after being through the first proove - for eg, she poked it and it stayed in. I think after the second proove it bounced right out - but don't know if Ihave this the right way round?

Being new to kneading, I am finding I'm not entirely sure if it has been kneaded enough. A recipe might say - well, Delias - to knead until springy and elastic - but I'm not nesessarily sure I am judging that right.

I guess what I am asking is -

1) How (more specifically) do I know the dough has been kneaded enough? It still seems quite stretchy when i knead it - by stretchy i mean like when i push it - it looks like it could be mixed more? Or maybe thats justy the texture it has?

2) How do i know second prove has done? When some recipes do and don't have the second prove, I find it confusing - how can you sometimes need it and sometimes not?

any tips? I have lookd up countless videos on youtube and video jug and dont seem to find any help with this....

TIA

Penelope_Penguin

zippychick wrote: »

My understanding (im still learning) is the second prove is more important as it is giving the light texture . I looked up alink last night where jamie explains the stages of bread well - here

That's my understanding, too I like to make bread when I have lots of time, and nobody else in the house That way I have time for the second rising, which IME, makes for a lighter loaf.

Penny. x

zippychick

Penelope_Penguin wrote: »

That's my understanding, too I like to make bread when I have lots of time, and nobody else in the house That way I have time for the second rising, which IME, makes for a lighter loaf.

Penny. x

That's what i thought.

Also wondered - can you over knead? And can you let it second prove too long? I know you can first prove overnight in the fridge etc - and the longer and slower it proves the better (i read), but for the second one - can you leave it too long - like will it collapse in on itself?:o

Penelope_Penguin

zippychick wrote: »

1) How (more specifically) do I know the dough has been kneaded enough? It still seems quite stretchy when i knead it - by stretchy i mean like when i push it - it looks like it could be mixed more? Or maybe thats justy the texture it has?

2) How do i know second prove has done? When some recipes do and don't have the second prove, I find it confusing - how can you sometimes need it and sometimes not?

1. I was taught at school and by my mother that you need to knead first time for 10 mins :eek: I bake bread most weekends, now, and do no more than 3 mins I make sure that the dough isn't too dry, either - splash with a little water if it's really hard to knead.

I then let the dough rise for a couple of hours, until it fills up the bowl that it's in. I then give it a good punch (to release the devil ) and knead agian. I find that the texture is much smoother for the second rise.

2. I then leave for about 30mins to rise before baking in a hot oven. I always do a second rise, as I find it gives a lighter bread. I've never seen a recipe that says you don't do a second rise; I'd ignore it and let the dough rise anyway

Pity you don;t live closer - you could come and be my apprentice (and we have spare HM scones, YS clotted cream, and a range of HM jam :j

HTH, Penny. x

Penelope_Penguin

zippychick wrote: »

That's what i thought.

Also wondered - can you over knead? And can you let it second prove too long? I know you can first prove overnight in the fridge etc - and the longer and slower it proves the better (i read), but for the second one - can you leave it too long - like will it collapse in on itself?:o

Crikey - you're worse than DS :eek: one question at a time :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I don;t think you can over knead (but see my previous post - I'm a lazy *$%£%"£ when it comes to kneading

You can let dough rise too long - it'll get too big to hold its shape, burst and collapse. No worries, just carry on :whistle:

Yes - once you've shaped the dough, get it into the oven within the hour

Do you have a camera? Pop some pics up and the Bread Experts can give their verdict!

Penny. x

zippychick

i would love to be your apprentice ! I dont really have many to share my love of cooking with, so this site is literally all I have. When me Gran was alive, i always use to ring her with cooking questions - miss her for that. She always had time, bless.

Thanks Penny, I think i understand now. It's worked when i have made it, I'm just sure i'm far from perfect and the technique etc can hopefully only improve.

Edit - ha ha ha ha ha! Sorry:o I have to say things while I remember them you see! Or else i spend hours going "what was that again?"

I already posted a link earlier to my submarine bread .:rotfl:That was the first handmae attempt. I will get a pic of todays once cooked !

thanking you!:T

zippychick

Submarine bread (didn't understand the implications of how you fold the bread up for loaf shape, still not perfect, but used Pauls technique from EG for the last one and it was closer to a proper loaf.

Again, i had tried to find loaf shaping on vids, but just keep finding annoying americans (sorry)

northwest1965

zippychick wrote: »

That's what i thought.

I know you can first prove overnight in the fridge etc -

Blimey I have so much to learn, I thought it had to be somewhere warm to prove?