Is HSBC going to Switch from Maestro to V Pay?

PROLIANT

smithja wrote: »

Hi MThomas

I disagree, I also did not say it will mean an end to Visa numbers beginning in 4, just that all Visa numbers will no longer begin with a 4.

If you look at my first post on the topic, you will see I also stated that a V-pay card (certainly those issued in the UK, I agree in some European markets they will not be co-branded and only for use within the European Economic Area, which we are and means if a bank migrates and their current number system does not begin with a 4 neither will the V-pay card number, I beleive you may misunderstand exactly what V-pay is) will have to be co-braded Visa Debit or Visa Electron, as consumers will not tolerate only being able to use their Visa debit card in Europe.

Take a look at this:-

http://www.vpay.com/brochures/VPAY_Brochure_EN.pdf

I hope you are enlightened by it, the full technical specification for card number migration from other domestic debit card systems are available from Visa on request.

James

Edit: The V-pay site in general has a great deal of information on it that people will find useful in understanding what it is about. Another part I though in particular PROLIANT would find interesting is:

"A card for every day spending

• As it becomes established, we expect that more and more merchants will welcome V PAY.
• In particular, V PAY is particularly suitable for routine, day-to-day spending – and merchants should happily accept V PAY for small amounts.
• V PAY will also be widely accepted for self-service transactions – such as ticket machines at train stations, self-checkout aisles at grocery shops and pay-at-pump petrol stations. "

And the latter point in-patricular, Visa has already invested millions in upgrading systems towards the 100% authorisation society, with card conforming to what is called EMV standards, and SEPA regulations.

James

A card for Europe, we use the "Sterling" currency over here and not the "Euro" thank christ for that, it is a card designed for the Euro market, UK consumers will not tolerate such an inferior card that is made only for electronic use only, I dont want V-Pay nor do millions of other people in the UK I think I can safely say at a guess, so VISA are going for 100% auth, well tell me this when a companies EPOS system crashes and cant process electronic payments do they tell their customers to go away? I think not. That is why we still have and use carbon copy "click-clack" machines just incase.

PROLIANT

skyrider007 wrote: »

I'd rather retain my Maestro Card than have an Electron card! Will they only change Solo to V-Pay and maybe Maestro to full Visa?

Not sure, there is no definite plan or answer on here so until then I will just make my own mind up based on what rubbish has been published by the financial institutions so far, I really hope they don’t phase out VISA debit and Maestro, but I don’t think they will get away with it that easy, people will just switch banks to the likes of CITI who are an American bank and only support VISA Debit system.

smithja

Hi Proliant

You have a good point what happens when the systems crash, which every now and again they will do and do do, you just need to Google, Visa or Maestro crash and read details of the mess that results in the on-line IT magazine "The Register". You will find from those articles that indeed that is exactly what happens the retailer turns away the customer.

Retailers may still have imprinters, but I think you will find them loathed in this country since the introduction of Chip and PIN to use one, even with an authorisation code taken over a telephone call, the transacation can still be charged back. Using an imprinter the onus moves to the retailer, and I cant see you of me standing in the queue in the supermarket while we all have prints of our card taken and call made to check the card is not lost/stolen/blocked and to get an authorisation number. It just wont happen in Tesco on a Saturday afternoon if the VisaNet or Mastercard's systems crash. People will be told "you need to pay in cash", it does and has happened.

You will find even APACS advice is NEVER rely soley on your card, always have some cash "just in case the systems go down", the exact words of their offical spokes person Sandra Quinn.

James

Edit: You will also find APACS say that a very high percentage of transactions are now real time authorised already, that is why cash will always be around.

Edit again: it was actually APACS Jemma Smith that said that about carrying cash not Sandra Quinn.

smithja

No reply Prolitant?

Have you conceeded you may be mistaken, can you imagine being in a Tesco hypermarket at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon when the VisaNet goes down and we all suppopsedly need "proper Visa Debit cards", i.e. not unembossed Visa or unemobssed Visa Debit (both electronic use only) and Visa Electron (the ones that make you "less of a person" as implied on this site by a few), so they can take imprints at the till and call to check the card hot list and for authorisation.

James

PROLIANT

smithja wrote: »

No reply Prolitant?

Have you conceeded you may be mistaken, can you imagine being in a Tesco hypermarket at 2pm on a Saturday afternoon when the VisaNet goes down and we all suppopsedly need "proper Visa Debit cards", i.e. not debossed Visa or debossed Visa Debit (both electronic use only) and Visa Electron (the ones that make you "less of a person" as implied on this site by a few), so they can take imprints at the till and call to check the card hot list and for authorisation.

James

Your opinion is deluded with regard to Visa as a status symbol, I certainly do not regard it as one, however I regard it as a very useful tool and Electron/V-PAY is not, how many UK banks have signed up for it....1, RBS and that is it, HSBC nor any other bank have signed up to become an issuer to replace their current set, all they are doing is adding it to their list of accepted forms of payment and until I can be shown some factual data that will contradict what I have been shown so far then V-PAY is a, hopefully, distant change.

smithja

Hi

I was referring to your comment

"I dont want V-Pay nor do millions of other people in the UK I think I can safely say at a guess, so VISA are going for 100% auth, well tell me this when a companies EPOS system crashes and cant process electronic payments do they tell their customers to go away? I think not. That is why we still have and use carbon copy "click-clack" machines just incase."

Even embossed cards from Visa can be 100% authorisation, when the network crashes whatever type of Visa card it is, a retailer will send you away.

This is what I was making a point about and asking if you were going to reply to it, or forget you made the statement.

James

Edit: Also, I dont see Visa as a status symbol, but a lot of people on here do, between the embossed and unembossed cards. If a card has a postive authorisation code and is embossed, this can be checked off-line even when the system goes down, the retailer becomes liable if the accept it for a transaction and dont get it authorised, also if it does not have a postive authorisation code, i.e. they can accept it in the imprinter up to the floor limit under the fallback mechansim when the systems go down they still need to check by phone if the card is on the "hot list" and if the system has gone right down the telephone operator wont be able to check that either. I dont think many people are aware of the complicate system that both Visa and Mastercard operate in terms of proper card acceptance.

PROLIANT

smithja wrote: »

Hi

I was referring to your comment

"I dont want V-Pay nor do millions of other people in the UK I think I can safely say at a guess, so VISA are going for 100% auth, well tell me this when a companies EPOS system crashes and cant process electronic payments do they tell their customers to go away? I think not. That is why we still have and use carbon copy "click-clack" machines just incase."

Even embossed cards from Visa can be 100% authorisation, when the network crashes whatever type of Visa card it is, a retailer will send you away.

This is what I was making a point about and asking if you were going to reply to it, or forget you made the statement.

James

Edit: Also, I dont see Visa as a status symbol, but a lot of people on here do, between the embossed and unembossed cards. If a card has a postive authorisation code and is embossed, this can be checked off-line even when the system goes down, the retailer becomes liable if the accept it for a transaction. I dont think many people are aware of the complicate system that both Visa and Mastercard operate in terms of proper card acceptance.

I will continue with this debate as soon as I have more information.

Talk soon.

smithja

no probs, I should put in another post explaining my position more clearly from the beginning as all of my edits are complicating things.

Cheers

James

edit: I have re-edited the last edit above which I hope explains things better.

smithja

Hi Proliant

I have found out what the solution to this problem is going to be, next year they will be phasing in cards were some funds are held on the Chip itself. So if the system goes down you can still use the card to get at that money unless the Chip and PIN terminals all go down to!


James

ShelfStacker_3

smithja wrote: »

Hi Proliant

I have found out what the solution to this problem is going to be, next year they will be phasing in cards were some funds are held on the Chip itself. So if the system goes down you can still use the card to get at that money unless the Chip and PIN terminals all go down to!


James

I find it hard to believe that HSBC, or indeed anyone, will be introducing e-Cash any time soon. It's very undertested and makes no sense, especially since if you have a Maestro card you can do offline authorisation anyway (negating the need for cash if the systems go down). Hell, even Solo cards let you do offline authorisation if the systems go down - it's only Electron that doesn't IIRC.

So, yeah; I don't see the point tbh.