NPower gas 'sculpting'

DirectDebacle

happyflea wrote: »

Trying to work out if have been overcharged and would be grateful for opinion of these numbers from my bills.

These are units I was charged hi rate -

May 06 - Nov 06 : 1269

Nov 06 - Apr 07 : 3046

Apr 07 - Nov 07 : 2455

Nov 07 - Aug 08 : 4187


Do you think I've been overcharged?

Thanks

Maximum you can be charged high rate per annum is 4572. Without exact dates of your bills it is difficult to be precise but from what you have posted this looks likely:

Year May 06 -Apr 07 total 4315

Apr 07 - Mar 08 total 6085

It is not likely you were overcharged year 06-07. Definitely overcharged 07-08.

Sterling

It is now several months, perhaps nearly a year, since Energywatch initially referred this matter to Ofgem, and that Ofgem was supposed to be “looking into it”. Well I for one can’t see what could possibly be taking Ofgem so long to come to a decision. I know for sure that if I was in charge of that body, it would long since have ordered Npower to trawl through its customer database and repay (in full) every customer that has been overcharged – without them even having to claim for it. If ever there was a clear-cut case of a company acting improperly towards its customers, this is it; as anyone reading this thread can plainly see.

In the meantime, I’m sure I read somewhere that Energywatch is effectively being closed down at the end of this month, presumably making it even less likely that Ofgem will ever feel the need to take any action on this complaint at all.

Instead, we have a situation where Npower are still quite openly fending off customer concerns on this subject with outrageously phoney excuses and misrepresentations. It seems clear even their telephone operatives appear to be scripted with such prepared responses designed to fob off as many complaints as possible.

All this, you may perhaps agree indicates a clear company policy of systematic deception as a method of avoiding paying full scale compensation to its affected customers. And of course that follows in the wake of what can only be described as two deliberately underhanded changes by Npower that resulted in the overcharging in the first place.

However, when customers don’t take no for an answer and indicate they are prepared to go to court if necessary, we learn that those nice chaps at Npower suddenly feel full of the warmth of humanity and proffer cheques on a “goodwill basis” without further argument. Would they do this if they didn’t have to? Do pigs fly?

Thus it seems clear that Npower’s management has no wish to have its deplorable actions in this fiasco scrutinised by a court. They know they have no true defence to any legitimate claim. There are an estimated 2.2 million affected customers, who are still unaware they have been cheated, and no doubt Npower would like to keep it that way, and keep the estimated £110million involved.
I see a parallel with the banking charges issue here. Until Martin Lewis gave that matter the air time it deserved, millions of bank customers had no idea they had any chance at all of reclaiming fees wrongly charged by their banks for years.

I had hoped that this thread, which I feel has easily demonstrated on so many occasions beyond any doubt that Npower is at fault, might have attracted the attention of Martin Lewis or his team, but having said that, I do appreciate the overwhelming amount of content in this forum as a whole, and why this so far hasn’t happened. Direct Debacle expressed much the same hope much earlier in this thread, by the way.

I therefore propose to write directly to Martin Lewis and draw this thread specifically to his attention, and to request that he considers giving this issue the same publicity that he gave the banking charges issue. I would respectfully ask all other readers and contributors to this thread to write to Martin Lewis in similar fashion as well. I say this because my letter alone will be just a single voice and easily overlooked. But if we write in sufficient numbers it should catch his attention. I suggest we all head our letters “Npower Gas Sculpting” so it is obvious we are all referring to the same matter, and asking for the same thing.

I am sure I am correct when I say that everyone who has contributed to this lengthy thread thus far has done so with the sole aim of helping as many others as possible to get their overpayments back; and also with the intention of bringing Npower to book, in the hope of dissuading that or any other company from attempting anything similar ever again. I don’t see how we can achieve this without upgrading this thread to a major campaign. I therefore invite everyone who reads this post to assist by writing to Martin Lewis as soon as possible.

I have set out below the letter I am now sending to Martin Lewis by email c/o this site at the general contact email address for moneysavingexpert.com. Please feel free to cut and paste any or all of the text below into your own email if you like. The important thing is the number of people who actually write.

---

Hello Martin

Npower gas sculpting

I’m sure you are already aware of the above issue and in particular that an estimated 2.2 million affected Npower gas customers were overcharged through 2007 by an average of around £50 each, making an estimated total overcharge in the order of £110million and which should be paid back to its customers by Npower.

What you may not be fully aware of is an excellent and informative thread on your website (under utilities) which I believe you will find clearly demonstrates (again and again) beyond doubt that Npower has no valid legal defence to any claim for compensation, and that its management is quietly paying out “goodwill” payments to more persistent claimants rather than risk losing in the county court.

Consequently, every affected customer should by now be claiming without delay. The game is effectively up for Npower. The trouble is that the vast majority of the affected customers are simply unaware of the current position, and Npower wants it to stay that way.
I believe that this situation is very similar to the banking charges scandal (before it was frozen), and I respectfully suggest that you consider giving this issue sufficient air time on TV so as to bring it to the attention of as many affected customers as possible. It is definitely a money-saver for all those millions concerned, many of whom can ill afford to be overcharged in this way. And if one energy company gets away with it, what about the others?

Regards and best wishes

Cardew

The Times as well could be contacted?

Derict Debacle has called their bluff despite being offered a three figure [STRIKE]bribe[/STRIKE] settlement and wants to have 'his day in court'.

It will be superb if that happens(he surely must win his case). However let us hope he can get a judgement against NPower and not let the small claims court sanction a 'without admission of liability' settlement.

DirectDebacle

If I do get a result against npower then, for them, the excrement will hit the rotating blades bigtime. The Times have not lost interest in this matter and will have a field day with them too. It will also encourage the fencesitters to make a decision and I hope the flood of claims npower have avoided so far will be of tsunami proportions. Not long to go now.

DirectDebacle

If I don't get the result then others should not be discouraged. We, the customers, only have to be lucky once. They have to be lucky all of the time.

Sterling

I have just checked my emails and found an automated reply from Martin Lewis to the email I sent yesterday. The automated reply referred to FAQs etc but did give an email link for “further help” at the bottom of the page, requesting that due to limited resources this should only used as a last resort.

However, seeing no other option, I chose to send my email there, simply because there seems to be no other way of contacting Martin Lewis or his team that I can find. Needless to say, if anyone reading this has any better ideas for contacting Martin Lewis please add to the thread. In the meantime, I would still urge everyone to write to him.

In answer to Cardew’s question, I whole-heartedly agree. Writing to The Times is an excellent idea, especially as it has covered the story up to a point already. In fact, I would suggest that everyone who reads this thread emails/writes to as many national and local papers as possible, plus local radio stations, and even other TV programmes such as local news, Channels 4 and 5 News etc, Working Lunch or the breakfast TV shows, referring to this thread. Our principal aim is of course to inform as many of the 2.2 million affected Npower customers as possible that Npower is shelling out “goodwill” payments in preference to being taken to court.

From the media point of view, this story is also about the fact that Ofgem has thus far failed to censure Npower's actions in any way whatever. In other words there has been (and still is) a scandalous lack of consumer protection in this industry. I would love to see a government minister defend for example the scrapping of Energywatch as well as the lack of action from Ofgem.

meggsy

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk:80/Pages/MoreInformation.aspx?docid=78&refer=Media/FactSheets

May make interesting reading later ... in the meantime my £75.00 goodwill payment is still on my desk and will stay there at least until we can get something moving to ensure that all overcharged customers are compensated by npower.

Sterling, Martin had a meeting with Ofgem a while ago, http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1045663&highlight=ofgem up to now he has not reported back.

Does anyone else have a problem logging in to the npower site btw to view paperless bills or is it just me :mad:

DirectDebacle

Sterling wrote: »

However, when customers don’t take no for an answer and indicate they are prepared to go to court if necessary, we learn that those nice chaps at Npower suddenly feel full of the warmth of humanity and proffer cheques on a “goodwill basis” without further argument. Would they do this if they didn’t have to? Do pigs fly?

Thus it seems clear that Npower’s management has no wish to have its deplorable actions in this fiasco scrutinised by a court. They know they have no true defence to any legitimate claim. There are an estimated 2.2 million affected customers, who are still unaware they have been cheated, and no doubt Npower would like to keep it that way, and keep the estimated £110million involved.
I see a parallel with the banking charges issue here. Until Martin Lewis gave that matter the air time it deserved, millions of bank customers had no idea they had any chance at all of reclaiming fees wrongly charged by their banks for years.

Thank you for this post which nicely summarises and echoes what people have been saying for months on this thread.

There are some parallels with the bank charges issue but there are also important differences which I fear will mean our complaint will not receive the sustained publicity as the banks.

Collectively the banks have potentially many millions more claims to meet than the 2-3 million npower could have. The sums involved with the banks are staggering compared to npowers liability and the issue stretches back many more years.

Lets face it, gas bills are not sexy and the majority of customers treat them with marginally more respect than junk mail. Bank statements are usually given a little more attention. They are easier to understand than an npower gas bill. Bank charges are not hidden, unlike the extra units charged on your gas bill.

The amount of overcharging, for those that managed to spot it, is probably no more than two or three months worth of bank charges. Many will feel the time, money and effort required to retrieve it is not worth the effort. They will switch and move on.

All of the above and more is good news for npower and explains their tactics to date.
Initially denying any overcharging then taking an inordinate amount of time to deal with complaints will cause some to give up and those that don't are eventually bought off with the lowest goodwill payment npower think they can get away with. They hope this issue will eventually die a natural death and at the end they will have kept many millions in illegal charges. So far this appears to be working well for them.

The Way Forward.

All we can do is to keep on as we are. Successful court action is going to help tremendously but it is going to need more than one. Lots more. After that point is reached then the media will pick it up en mass and hopefully the whole thing will gather momentum. Ofgem will be forced to pull their finger out and perhaps appropriate action will eventually follow.

This is going to require resolve and determination on our part. It is not easy to persuade people to spend £100 or so on court action, plus all the time and trouble of preparing a case to try to claim £75 or so. Especially when they have been offered about the same in hush money.
But to stop them getting away with it and repeating it (and other suppliers following suit) this is what will be required.
The bank charges issue was merely about money. Everyone knew of bank charges and how they were applied. They were never hidden by the banks.
This isssue is about more than money. Honesty, integrity and morality are more of an issue here to me than mere money.

So to all you npower monitors of this thread, take this back to your lair. We will not give this up and many people put a higher price on 'right' than a few miserly pounds and some false goodwill.

kpals

phoned npower to complain about overpaid bills-sculpting issue of course! got phoned back from complaints dept with an offer of £50 they say to compensate for the time taken to explain the charging structure and for the level of customer service I received. thanks

Sterling

Many thanks indeed Meggsy for the info and the two hyperlinks (both of which I have now clicked on and read through) and would not have seen otherwise.

Taking them in order; first as you know is the link to Ofgem (and once there I clicked on the summary explanation of the forthcoming changes). For those who haven’t yet clicked on this yet, I would recommend they do – as it explains the new complaints procedure as of 1st October 2008.

In a nutshell, its goodbye Energywatch, hello Energy Ombudsman; but while this may be an intended improvement, I am not so sure it will, unless the Energy Ombudsman has the same power as Energywatch had, to refer such unfair trading practices as Npower’s gas sculpting changes to Ofgem.

As I read it, the Energy Ombudsman will be there to resolve those complaints of individual consumers which cannot first be resolved between the consumer and the supplier. I sincerely hope this does not restrict our right to sue in court if we wish instead of having it judged by the Energy Ombudsman. Furthermore, I’d like to know will the Energy Ombudsman’s judgment be based solely on UK law or will any other factors come into play. Also will his decision be based on written submissions alone or can one attend a hearing in person (and will such hearings be local – as county courts are)? Will there be a right of appeal, as we have with the courts?

Whether the Energy Ombudsman will have the power to refer a supplier’s unfair trading practices in general to Ofgem was not stated in the blurb. It does say that complaints from “vulnerable” consumers or those about to be disconnected will be in effect fast tracked by “Consumer Focus”, being part of Consumer Direct. Who decides who is “vulnerable”?

It would be nice to have some official government reassurance that consumers in general will be fully protected including from unfair practices of suppliers. To me, these changes have all the appearance of a cost cutting measure with about as much chance of being a total success as the removal of the 10p tax band was. I sincerely hope I am wrong, and indeed I can see the logic of having an energy ombudsman if the set-up is correct. But none of these changes appear to have addressed the scandalous lack of action from Ofgem in this matter.

On the second hyperlink (Martin Lewis’ thread), there seems to be no express mention of the overcharging by Npower due to their two changes in their gas sculpting etc, although he does mention he had a list of matters he planned to talk to Ofgem about. It may well have been on his list but we don’t know for sure. In any event Ofgem have surely had more than enough time to fully investigate such an obvious matter as this; and yet thus far the silence has been deafening. Who monitors Ofgem I wonder.

Kpals - Well done. So you got an offer of £50 on your first phone call. No matter how Npower tarts up its justification for paying it, the fact is its resistance seems to be crumbling more than ever.

Direct Debacle - we are obviously on the same side, and so I hope you don’t mind if I disagree with you on a few details.

You say, “Many will feel the time, money and effort required to retrieve it is not worth the effort. They will switch and move on.” That may well be true; and that is why I believe it is the duty of Ofgem to order Npower to trawl through its customer database and repay (in full) every customer that has been overcharged – without them even having to claim for it. No doubt Npower will say this can’t be done, but of course it can – and should be, regardless of how much it costs Npower to do it.

You say, “All we can do is to keep on as we are”. I say it can only help to bring the glare of publicity to bear firstly on Ofgem (to explain its lack of action, and get it to make the above order) and secondly, in the meantime, to make as many affected customers of Npower aware that it is shelling out “goodwill” payments more readily than ever. Also this matter is so obvious that unlike the banking charges I can’t see the need for a successful court action before Ofgem needs to act, whereas this was necessary in the case of the banks and the OFT. So I say bring on the publicity now, and I believe we can do it if as many as possible of us try to do so.

You refer to court fees of “£100 or so” but looking at the court website, I find that the fee is only £30 for claims up to £300; and if you file the claim on line, that fee reduces to £25.I am not advocating that people should go to court if it can be avoided and I would prefer the media to force Npower to do what they should have done some time ago.

You seem to be saying that people should not be accepting these “hush money” payments, but I say that every such payment made (and banked) reduces Npower’s defense to an order to repay all its affected customers their full entitlement to compensation (including the ones who have received something already. Every time someone informs this thread that they have received a satisfactory offer of payment (or bank a cheque) from Npower will therefore be of great help to this cause.

You say, “Lets face it, gas bills are not sexy…” I say, right now energy bills are uppermost in everyone’s minds and any payment from Npower adds power to the rest of us.