NPower gas 'sculpting'

DirectDebacle

2latenow wrote: »

Hi,



I've now (finally) had a letter from "Stage 3" "Sculpting complaints" team.

Interesting. They now have a 'Sculpting Team! When was the letter dated please.

Cardew

If there are no pricing changes within a full billing year period, then of course the higher rate tariff would not exceed the 4572 kWh."

Even more interestingly, the letter above leaves them the option of restarting the tariff year at any time in the future if there is a price change; and carrying out exactly the same scam.

The only difference is that they will include that provision in the small print T&Cs - that nobody understands anyway.

DirectDebacle

Cardew wrote: »

The only difference is that they will include that provision in the small print T&Cs - that nobody understands anyway.

They already have that provision but failed to comply with the required conditions.

For price changes it is here:

We may change our prices, discounts or the way we charge for gas and electricity. If we increase our prices or reduce our discounts, we will tell you within 65 Working Days. If you do not accept the changes, you may end this agreement by changing supplier. The changes will not apply to you if within 10 Working Days of being told about the changes, you tell us that you are ending the agreement, and within the next 15 Working Days we receive notice through industry processes that another supplier will begin to supply your home within a reasonable period of time.

For other changes it is here:

More about this agreement

Changes to these agreement terms


We may change the terms under which we supply gas or electricity at any time. If the changes put you in a worse position, we will tell you about them within 65 Working Days. If you do not accept the changes, you may end this agreement by changing supplier. The changes will not apply to you if within 10 Working Days of being told about the changes, you tell us that you are ending the agreement, and within the next 15 Working Days we receive notice through industry processes that another supplier will begin to supply your home within a reasonable period of time.

They have breached these conditions in several respects. In addition the definition of 'tariff year' and variations which may apply to the primary block units need to be incorporated. This would make a redraft of the T&Cs necessary and would probably be challenged as unfair terms and conditions.

If they were held to be fair, consumers would probably find them so unpalatable that they would leave in droves, new customers switching to them would be few and far between.

2latenow

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Interesting. They now have a 'Sculpting Team! When was the letter dated please.

The letter was dated 2nd June, though I spoke to the same person on Thursday 30th May. In the letter he mentions "level 3 complaints" so I would guess they've assigned a number of their normal L3 team to concentrate on the Sculpting complaints.

Although this was end of May, their normal helpdesk team first mentioned to me that my complaint ticket was queued for the "Sculpting team" on 15th May. This operator also mentioned that they had a large volume of complaints about the same issue...

2latenow

Cardew wrote: »

Even more interestingly, the letter above leaves them the option of restarting the tariff year at any time in the future if there is a price change; and carrying out exactly the same scam.

The only difference is that they will include that provision in the small print T&Cs - that nobody understands anyway.

As of last night, the T&C on their website still doesn't mention that "Year" = variable number between 1 and 366. It does define a "working day" so you'd expect other similar definitions to be there....

But you are correct ..... the phrase "application of pricing methodology" is particularly worrying for anyone staying with npower - "methodology" could be very very broad... they could probably even (just about) argue changes to the billing presentation/format would qualify.

Cardew

DirectDebacle wrote: »

They already have that provision but failed to comply with the required conditions.

.

We are at cross-purposes.

I am talking about them including(in future T & Cs) the 'tariff year' provision!

Which will enable them to carry out the same scam!

RM5_2

2latenow wrote: »

"Dear Mr [2latenow]

As discussed, having had a meeting with our Pricing Manager, the reason that some of our customers have seen an increase in the "Higher Rate Tariff" was due to the way we introduced changes in our pricing structure. Between April 2007 and November 2007 whilst a migration/merging of all our customer's accounts were integrated into one billing system, which meant that it was impossible for us to maintain present billing structures."

- as others have said their internal systems changes are not (should not be) our problem.

"Our pricing team recognised that there would be an impact where it was not possible to maintain the seasonal charges and therefore as part of using a standard daily flat rate for the higher rate charges, they set the new follow on rate lower than normally would have been the case in April 2007 to compensate for some of our customers who may exceed the 4572 kWh per annum."

If the system migration was the real reason for suspending the sculpting, the obvious solution would have been to suspend the sculpting for a full year, preferrably the whole of the calendar year 2007.
But of course the real reason was that they wanted to make an apparent price cut (to be cheaper than British Gas) in a cost-neutral way by clawing the money back through the sculpting scam.

2latenow wrote: »

"With regards to the 4572 kWh per annum, it has come to our attention that we are not making our customers aware that the 4572 kWh was calculated over a tariff year. Thi means the 4572 kWh is across a tariff year, which begins at the change date of any change in gas price or change in application of pricing methodology. In the electricity and gas industry the year quoted is a "tariff year" that begins from the introduction of any changed charges. If there are no pricing changes within a full billing year period, then of course the higher rate tariff would not exceed the 4572 kWh."

This answers our earlier questions whether it was sculpting or price changes that trigger a reset. At least this guy seems to think it is both. Just when we thought the tariff year is resting in peace.

They make it sound like the "tariff year" restarting is some kind of industry standard. Any evidence for that? No, of course not. Google tariff year and the only relevant results are from Northern Ireland, where the electricity tariff year is from April to March.

Anne3333

This is the latest from MSN
£90m electricity bill shocker



A barmaid spoke of her disbelief after receiving a £90 million electricity bill.
Alison Turner, 50, of Cambridge, was stunned when the demand from npower arrived through the post.
The mother-of-two, who lives alone in a one-bedroom flat, normally spends about £20 every two weeks to top up her pre-payment electric meter. An npower spokesman said it was "a human error".

Who else but NPower!

DirectDebacle

Anne3333 wrote: »

This is the latest from MSN
£90m electricity bill shocker



A barmaid spoke of her disbelief after receiving a £90 million electricity bill.
Alison Turner, 50, of Cambridge, was stunned when the demand from npower arrived through the post.
The mother-of-two, who lives alone in a one-bedroom flat, normally spends about £20 every two weeks to top up her pre-payment electric meter. An npower spokesman said it was "a human error".

Who else but NPower!

They have humans there?

Received some info 'hot off the press' that today Ofgem announced that they have launched an official investigation into npowers pricing and charging practices.

DirectDebacle

More on npower. Times update.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/consumer_affairs/article4159415.ece