Query on deposit and lack of inventory...

ChrisH

Hi all,

Just got a quick one for you.

If a landlord was to make a deduction from a deposit and no inventory was ever made, I am led to believe that this would not stand up in court as there's no proof of the condition of the property prior to the tenants moving in.

However, if the property was a brand new conversion and thus described as being 'as new' without any kind of inventory, where would I stand? I can see that they wouldn't be able to deduct for any potentially missing physical items, but what about the general condition of the property?

Essentially, the problem is that I (stupidly) moved into a flat and replaced a previous tenant on the AST and am therefore liable for all the damage that they caused (quite a bit unfortuntely).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Chris

muggins_here

There really needs to be a dedicated thread about dodgy landlords trying to con people out of their damage deposits...

I'm in a similar situation now: I moved into my last flat in 2005 and got a proper check-in and inventory recorded. I moved out two weeks ago, and my landlord decided to find new tenants via a different letting agency. Now my landlord is claiming that I damaged the property, but is refusing to acknowledge the original inventory, telling me he'll get the new letting agency to do a survey instead, even though they have no idea what condition the flat was in back in 2005! The flat had a lot of problems before I moved in and now it looks like he's trying to sort them out at my expense, and that he may try and charg me for any problems caused by the new tenants.

I've tried calling him to discuss the matter several times but he texted to tell me to "stop bothering him"(!)- basically he's saying "I don't care about the evidence, I'm keeping your deposit and that's that." Worst of all, the phone number and email address are all the contact details I have- a few months after I moved in he emigrated and as I have just found out, he didn't pass his new details on to the agent I rented the flat through. I need the address to take this to the Small Claims Court but can't get it from anyone, what are my options now? People keep telling me to go to Citizen's Advice but they can only advise me, they can't force him to cough up my £1,200.

clutton_2

read eagerlearners thread on here - but if he is abroad - you probably should just write it off and move on as you need a "serviceable address" - and no it ain't fair......

muggins_here

Thanks clutton, I can't really afford to write it off but it's not looking good. My landlord's saying he'll pay back *some* of my deposit but he seems really dodgy- he sent his girlfriend (who now lives in the UK) to look at the flat first, and she said it was fine and the place was nice and clean, then I got an email from him claiming she'd said it was "filthy", and that the new tenants said the same thing. I phoned the girlfriend and she said he's a liar who tries this with all his tenants, but she can't phone him to stick up for me because - conveniently enough- they've now broken up and she doesn't want to speak to him ever again. She also reminded me that her English isn't too good, as if that's a reason not to even *try* and sort things- her English isn't great but I could understand her well enough.

Incidentally, he has actually sent me a cheque for the full deposit- it arrived on Monday, so obviously he posted it before the dispute arose. I banked it immediately, thinking that because it's a large amount it was worth the risk of paying my bank's £30 charge if it bounces (which it probably will). Odd that he posted it after his girlfriend did the check-in, then changed his mind- something's definitely not right there. I've heard so many conflicting stories, from him arguing with the girlfriend to the new tenants being furious about the damp in the flat and trying to get me to pay to sort it, but whatever the truth this guy has "dodgy" running through him like a stick of rock. I could always ask him why the hell he posted a cheque if he was told the flat was "filthy", and ask why he changed his mind but he'll probably ignore those questions too.

It could also be the new tenants trying to get "revenge" on me, because they requested (through the letting agent) that I come to the flat to welcome them and answer all their questions, and I refused- no tenant is obliged to do this, and I didn't see why I should give up some of my precious little free time and visit them at my expense, only for them to end up phoning me every five minutes when they can't work the radiators or the washing machine- everyone I've asked agrees that this was a totally unreasonable request. When they came to view the flat they were also eyeing up all my posessions like magpies, asking if they'd get to keep my lamps, bedlinen, etc. I hope he stiffs them for the deposit too

I might just have to let the whole thing go, it's a good thing I got a new job recently... is there any chance I could make this a criminal matter? I only have the anecdotal evidence from the girlfriend, but I'd like to help protect anyone else who considers renting from him. I know another dodgy landlord in the area was jailed recently, and the case was well-publicised.

ChrisH

Sorry, just doing a cheeky bump to see if anyone has any suggestions?

Thanks again

Regards,
Chris.

Loretta

I think that you have a good case for the County Court if he sent you a cheque and it bounces, there are rules about that, someone will be able to tell you shortly I am sure. I thought the Lanldord had to give a UK contact address for myou to send a summons

merlinthehappypig

Under law, when you write a cheque to someone you effectively promise that the cheque will definitely be honoured by your Bank, and if for whatever reason the Bank does not honour the cheque you imply that you will compensate that person in full.

So, if someone’s (it could be anyone – company, customer, friend, family) cheque is not honoured or is stopped by them (for example, by a customer because they are unhappy with the goods or services you supplied to them), you can immediately sue that person and there is virtually no defence that the customer can raise to that claim.

In most cases, where you sue on a cheque in this way, you will get an early judgment against the person or company that issued the bounced cheque with no need to go through the expense and stress of a full court case.

There will only be a defence to your claim for a bounced cheque in two situations:

If the person issuing the cheque can prove that they received absolutely nothing from you in exchange for their payment, this may legally justify their stopping the cheque. If, however, they obtained even very deficient goods or services from you, this removes this defence from them and you will still get judgment against them

The only other defence they can raise is where the contract with you was illegal or you obtained the cheque from them in a fraudulent way.

If neither of these two defences can be raised, your claim will succeed, you will get judgment, and you can then proceed to enforce that judgement if they do not pay you voluntarily.

inmypocketnottheirs

Also further to the above, your bank will not charge you £30 for a cheque bounced to you. There may be a charge of around £5. The £30 charge is when you write a cheque that bounces.

If it has cleared by lunchtime today, that is the last moment that the cheque can be recalled, so hopefully by this evening you will be in the clear.

Fingers crossed!

muggins_here

Thanks Pocket, but I foud out this afternoon that the cheque has indeed bounced

Big thanks for the advice, Merlin, I now have proof that he cancelled a cheque and full receipts, the envelope with postmarks and foreign stamps, etc, so I will visit the CAB next week. My only problem is that I still don't have a postal address for him, and I am having extreme difficulty in obtaining one- the new letting agents seem unwilling to give it out, and my old ones have no record of it (I may have grounds to sue them for failing to protect me, but that's a last resort). I'm sure the estate agents who are about to accept an offer on the flat (he has put it up for sale too, I think another a buy-to-let client has made the offer) would like to know if his credit rating will be affected, as would the UK bank the cheque was drawn on.
Will I need a residential address to get a county court judgement? And will I still have grounds to sue even though I wasn't providing him with goods or services? Enforcing payment shouldn't be too hard, he has funds in the UK and a number of properties, one of which he is trying to sell, so freezing his assets will be the easy part... if I can even get that far

tbs624

ChrisH wrote: »

Sorry, just doing a cheeky bump to see if anyone has any suggestions?

Thanks again

Regards,
Chris.

Chris - your bump's not cheeky. "Muggins Here" is the cheeky one as s/he effectively hijacked your thread. Try re-starting your thread and you'll probably get a better response.

muggins_here

Steady on tbs624, I wasn't hijacking the thread! I thought I'd add to this one rather than start my own thread and clutter up the board, as Chris seems to be in a similar situation to me and there may be advice here which could benefit both of us. I also think this thread should be stickied, so all the advice on retrieving damage deposits can be collected together in one resource. It is a very common problem so I think a dedicated damage deposit thread is needed.

Chris, it's interesting that your landlord claims that a new conversion doesn't need an inventory. First of all, a conversion isn't strictly new, and the original building may have problems. The flat I have just moved to is relatively new (built in 2006) and I still got an inventory, for all the tiny things like marks on the skirting boards and a few gaps between floarboards and joins- even if these are the fault of the designers and builders, they shoudl still be in the inventory.

I don't know who has the upper hand here, the landlord for claiming you have no proof, or you for claiming the landlord has no proof. Good luck and please keep us posted to let us know who you're getting on.