humiliated by boss

dag_2

Not sure if this is the right forum for this one - but here it is.

I work for the IT department of an NHS trust - I won't say which one or what I do, obviously.

I've only been there a few months. But I feel that my boss humiliates me and pokes fun at me in front of the other staff, because of things I've said to her. Some of those things were supposed to have been in confidence, too.

I think it's not as bad now as it was when I first started - but then again, it's always tempting to downplay the seriousness of bullying. Perhaps we want to think it's easier to crack than it really is - or perhaps it's "stockholm syndrome". Then again, whether it's greater or lesser than anyone else's bullying is beside the point. The point is, I want it to stop before it gets more serious.

The boss thinks she recently asked me to help her with something, and that I snapped back a sarcastic response. So she sent me an email about how "this kind of attitude will not be tolerated in the team". I'm not going to say exactly what she asked because it might identify me.

But I don't think she asked me for help in a direct way. Instead, I think she worded it in a way like she was trying to put me on the spot, and humiliate me again - so I naturally wanted to get my put-down in before she got hers in.

Okay so maybe I didn't handle it as well as I could have. But if she had always treated me with respect, then this wouldn't be a problem. But she hasn't. So I'm naturally defensive with her.

Anyway - my first performance and development review and appraisal meeting is next week. One of my key objectives is to defend myself whenever the boss tries to put me down over the next few months - and to be honest, nothing else at work matters to me until I've cracked this one. But unfortunately, the guidelines says that the review process isn't intended for disciplinary discussions. It says that poor performance should be dealt with through separate HR policies.

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't an anti-bullying policy. However, there is a grievance procedure. But grievances are inadmissible if not raised within fourteen days of their first occurance. So this makes it difficult to use the grievance procedure for ongoing bullying.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

ohreally

dag wrote:

To the best of my knowledge, there isn't an anti-bullying policy.

There most definetly is an anti-bullying policy - all trusts have one.

dag wrote:

Any suggestions?

Involve your steward in this. S/he will be able to advise on the best way to progress this.

Who told you you must raise a grievence within 14 days of the event?

Savvy_Sue

I agree with the first reply, but wonder if it's also worth starting the review or pre-dating it with a "I'm sorry if my attitude sometimes doesn't come across right to you ... but maybe we don't always communicate as clearly as we could" kind of chat. Involving someone from HR could be useful? If you think there's any chance of this just being some kind of "rubbing each other up the wrong way" initially which is now escalating.

I only say this because I once had a LM whose behaviour I found difficult to deal with. It wasn't that he was sexually harrassing me, but he always seemed to be just a bit too close to me, and he always called us ladies "My dear" or things like that, he came across as a bit too avuncular and not quite professional enough. I certainly didn't want to make a formal complaint, because I was certain that he had no idea that his behaviour was inappropriate or that people might find it inappropriate.

So I talked to HR, who were very helpful (although they did winkle out of me which manager it was, which I hadn't intended to say, I think they knew fine well which of the two chaps it was likely to be!) and advised me to try to talk to him first, and only then take it further if he didn't respond appropriately.

Of course it was hard, because he was mortified, and had no idea he was being anything other than friendly (any more than I think he realised he was the bore from hell!), but he DID keep his distance after that and never called me "My dear" again! (If he'd been a Bristolian and called me 'My lover' that would probably have been fine! But he wasn't, and TBH I'd expect a manager to lose that kind of idiom at work!)

You may be beyond this stage, or think it's not like that at all, but just wondered if that would help.

All the best!

dag_2

"I'm sorry if my attitude sometimes doesn't come across right to you ... but maybe we don't always communicate as clearly as we could"

Thanks for the suggestion. Within the first two weeks of me starting, I approached my boss to say that I don't think we're communicating as well as we could be. I didn't mean any harm, but she was very offended by it.

On the plus side, she did agree to meet me to discuss it - which is what I asked for. But on the minus side, she gave me absolutely no notice. She sprang it on me and expected me to drop everything. And she made it crystal clear she was very annoyed, and resented spending the time with me to talk about it. She also said that it would negatively affect future appraisals.

Furthermore - that meeting was supposed to be in confidence. Yet it didn't stop her making sarcastic jokes at my expense in front of other staff, later on that same day.

That was two months ago.

So far, I've spoken with a few of my colleagues about it - but I don't want to speak to too many in case it looks like I'm gossiping. I've also asked to see a union rep about it - but I haven't spoken to HR or occupational health.

loopy_lass

do they have a whistle blowing policy? get in touch with your union rep NOW, gather evidence, be prepared to loose your job.... its all you can do or put up n shut up... which seems not to be an option.

hth loops

deary65

http://www.bullyonline.org/

oldmotherreilly

I would suggest keeping a diary over the next few weeks of all the situations that occur that make you feel uncomfortable;what was said and who else was present. Then if the matter goes any further you can actually give specific examples of what happened, along with dates and times and witnesses that were present. That way you have specific evidence of events rather than trying to remember when you are put on the spot by HR or your boss.

ohreally

dag wrote:

But grievances are inadmissible if not raised within fourteen days of their first occurance. So this makes it difficult to use the grievance procedure for ongoing bullying.

Dag,who told you you must raise a grievence within 14 days ?

Downsizing__for_sanity

But I don't think she asked me for help in a direct way. Instead, I think she worded it in a way like she was trying to put me on the spot, and humiliate me again - so I naturally wanted to get my put-down in before she got hers in.

People often feel out of their depth, "the odd one out" when they start a new job. Can you speak to someone outside of work, to confirm to yourself you're not just being "sensitive"? As you say, it's getting better than it was, so you must be starting to settle in.

I am a boss - and with reference to your comment above, I WOULD NOT tolerate sarcastic "put downs" to me in front of my staff. Don't you think this is going to make more trouble for you if you put her on the defensive?

My advice would be to keep your head down, and be nothing more than polite and civil at all times, whatever the provocation. Whilst if you are truly being bullied and victimised, you should not hesitate in reporting the matter, remember if people think you've had a spat and are being malicious, they may dismiss your complaint and mark you as a mere troublemaker. Tread carefully!

Good luck

DFS

chugalug

I really do feel for you having been in this situation myself. It's very hard to deal with when individual incidents don't sound serious, just bad communication etc etc. When you add everything up do you feel you're being undermined, your work belittled, are your acheivements at work respected? It doesn't sound like it. I realised I was the target of a bully when the goalposts kept moving. She was a new senior but despite me having worked for the organisation for 4 years my work was suddenly substandard. Every time I brought in the changes she asked for the goalposts moved again - I could never satisfy her. Of course, if you go to the bullyonline website (which is brilliant) you'll discover that you never can satisfy a bully as your work isn't the problem and its not a personality clash either. The trouble is if they're senior and the manager sides with them you have a problem. Unfortunately bullying isnt always recognised as such. What I would say is if your work was good enough before this person came into the office why isnt it now? She's behaving unprofessionally if she's making these sort of comments in front of other staff but in a way that does help you. So much of workplace bullying is hidden ie in appraisals your work is pulled apart and nasty comments made but in front of others they're nice to you. As a previous poster said, note everything in a diary (kept away from where others can get hold of it and never on the computer). Most of all, look after yourself. Workplace bullying can lead to a loss of confidence and eventual depression because of the loss of control over your situation. I decided my health was more important than my job and left even though the company did eventually dismiss this person for gross misconduct (took them a year though). Unfortunately one of my ex-colleagues is still off work because of the long term damage and may never return. So, put yourself first. If you don't look after yourself, believe me the NHS won't.

dag_2

Thanks for the great advice everyone. I put this in the "benefits tax credits and jobseeking" forum because I thought that improving your ability to hold down your job is loosely related to jobseeking. I know that I won't be able to hold down the job without health consequences if I don't sort this one out.

ohreally says:

Who told you you must raise a grievence within 14 days of the event?

The policy itself says, and I quote, "Where an employee has a grievance arising from employment, the matter in question should first be raised informally within fourteen calendar days of the grievance first occurring with their line manager or immediate supervisor."

loopy_lass says:

get in touch with your union rep NOW, gather evidence, be prepared to loose your job.... its all you can do or put up n shut up... which seems not to be an option.

I think I agree with you - after all, my health is more important than my job. Naturally I'd rather it didn't get to that stage, though ...

oldmotherreilly

I would suggest keeping a diary over the next few weeks of all the situations that occur that make you feel uncomfortable;what was said and who else was present.

Fantastic idea - thanks! In fact I started making notes yesterday. There was one incident yesterday but none today.

Don't get me wrong - if it never happens again, that would be fantastic - but I appreciate it's difficult to get allegations of bullying taken seriously without specific information about when and where it happens, and how it's done.

dsfs says:

I am a boss - and with reference to your comment above, I WOULD NOT tolerate sarcastic "put downs" to me in front of my staff. Don't you think this is going to make more trouble for you if you put her on the defensive?

The short answer is yes - but in practice, I realise that this is what has spurred me into action - and in the long run, it will be better. If she hadn't complained about a defensive remark I made, then I wouldn't be posting here about it now. But now, I can see how hypocritical it makes her. Whenever I make a throwaway put-down, she gets on her high horse about it - yet she's made hundreds of them at my expense, and I've just taken it on the chin. If she won't tolerate my attitude, then why should I tolerate hers? No more !!!!!footing around her, I want to start saying things as they really are. (trouble is - it's easier said than done, and I don't think I can do it on my own. I need colleagues / counsellor / union rep to support me.)

My advice would be to keep your head down, and be nothing more than polite and civil at all times, whatever the provocation. Whilst if you are truly being bullied and victimised, you should not hesitate in reporting the matter, remember if people think you've had a spat and are being malicious, they may dismiss your complaint and mark you as a mere troublemaker.

Believe me, I've tried keeping my head down, and being polite and civil at all times, but it hasn't worked. Don't get me wrong - I do appreciate your input - but my attitude now is that the only people who would dismiss complaints of bullying as trouble-making are those who are in cahoots with the bullies. Reporting allegations of bullying is a lot easier said than done, no matter how good your organisation's policies are - as I'm sure you are aware.

chugalug says:

It's very hard to deal with when individual incidents don't sound serious, just bad communication etc etc.

spot on

When you add everything up do you feel you're being undermined, your work belittled, are your acheivements at work respected?

Yes I do feel undermined and belittled. The reason why I think it might be getting better now is that I have made two significant achievements. These achievement did get a respect of sorts - not without comments like "oh about time too" - but they're now beginning to be taken for granted.

What I would say is if your work was good enough before this person came into the office why isnt it now?

Thanks for the comment. I've never had a different manager in my current job, though I can compare her to managers in previous jobs I've had. I can also compare my performance and development to colleagues simply by asking them - it isn't any worse than anyone else's.

Anyway - I've been in touch with a union rep, and am waiting for them to get back to me to arrange a time to talk. I think I'll also contact the occy health counsellors - they've got an answering machine at the moment.

On the plus side - my boss isn't threatening to invoke formal disciplinary or capability procedures. I suspect that she's scared of her boss finding out about it - because I think she would feel that it reflects badly on her ability to manage her staff. She likes to make out that her manager supports her, and threatens to get him involved, but she never actually does it.

Rumour has it that her relationship with her manager is not that good, and somewhat distant.

Thanks for the helpful advice everyone. I'll try to post about what happens.