Continuing Health Care - Preparing to fight PCT's decision

monkeyspanner

sonorman wrote: »

In addition when the NHS picks up the tab - this is running at up to £52,000pa for just one person.
Surely some sort of moral responsibility comes into play as that money could be better used elsewhere in the NHS.

I know what the law says, but come on, if someone is sat on a house valued at say £150,000, irrespective of what the law says, that person should contribute say 2/3rds towards their care & nursing. That still leaves £50,000 available for gifts to people.

I also believe that the NHS could spend the £200,000 a year in overtime that consultants can earn in a better way. Since when did a salaried position attract overtime payments?

What you propose regarding splitting costs is not possible at present in England as the system of CHC funding is all or nothing. Buried deep in this thread I have in the past said I believe that the NHS should pick up the nursing costs and the resident should pay the domestic part of the costs. But that is not the way it works and the NHS does its very best to deny even the existence of its reponsibility under the law. Perhaps if it was more open as an organisation then people would not be so upset when they are treated with such little respect.

sonorman

monkeyspanner wrote: »

I also believe that the NHS could spend the £200,000 a year in overtime that consultants can earn in a better way. Since when did a salaried position attract overtime payments?

What you propose regarding splitting costs is not possible at present in England as the system of CHC funding is all or nothing. Buried deep in this thread I have in the past said I believe that the NHS should pick up the nursing costs and the resident should pay the domestic part of the costs. But that is not the way it works and the NHS does its very best to deny even the existence of its reponsibility under the law. Perhaps if it was more open as an organisation then people would not be so upset when they are treated with such little respect.

Most people who are either on a salary or a wage get overtime paid for. I did!

If anybody works over the hours for which they are normally paid for are entitled to an extra payment.
Even civil servants are compensated for extra work carried out over their allotted hours of 37.5 hrs pw.

Errata

NHS consultants are paid for the work they do outwith their contracted hours. My consultant has in the last six months phoned me twice on a Sunday evening to discuss the results of an MRI scan. I have no idea if she gets paid for working Sunday evenings; if she does she's certainly earning her money and I'm certainly very, very grateful.

monkeyspanner

sonorman wrote: »

Most people who are either on a salary or a wage get overtime paid for. I did!

If anybody works over the hours for which they are normally paid for are entitled to an extra payment.
Even civil servants are compensated for extra work carried out over their allotted hours of 37.5 hrs pw.

So why do government employees make out they are worse off than private sector employees? No wonder the UK is running such a large budget deficit.

As a salaried employee of an engineering company I regularly worked in excess of 60 hours per week for my salary and did not expect overtime.

sonorman

monkeyspanner wrote: »

So why do government employees make out they are worse off than private sector employees? No wonder the UK is running such a large budget deficit.

As a salaried employee of an engineering company I regularly worked in excess of 60 hours per week for my salary and did not expect overtime.

The simple answer to that is that civil servants have almost always had a lower rate of pay for a job when compared to the same job in outside industry.

The pension scheme they are in was supposed to make up for that deficit.

As an example. A qualified solicitor (aged say 35) who has gone on to specialise in say insolvency law is currently earning between £20,000 and £29,000pa.

In outside industry they would earn in excess of £50,000pa.

They are paid their salary for working 37.5 hrs pw. Anything over that is either paid at overtime rates or more commonly, as time off in lieu.

The vast majority of civil servants are hard working and provide a valuable service sometimes under extreme political pressure.

If you entered into your own contract knowing that you would not get paid for any hours worked over the norm - then I am sorry but that is your fault as it should have been negotiated before you took the job.

hortibob

sonorman wrote: »

The simple answer to that is that civil servants have almost always had a lower rate of pay for a job when compared to the same job in outside industry.

The pension scheme they are in was supposed to make up for that deficit.

As an example. A qualified solicitor (aged say 35) who has gone on to specialise in say insolvency law is currently earning between £20,000 and £29,000pa.

In outside industry they would earn in excess of £50,000pa.

They are paid their salary for working 37.5 hrs pw. Anything over that is either paid at overtime rates or more commonly, as time off in lieu.

The vast majority of civil servants are hard working and provide a valuable service sometimes under extreme political pressure.

If you entered into your own contract knowing that you would not get paid for any hours worked over the norm - then I am sorry but that is your fault as it should have been negotiated before you took the job.

What on earth does this have to do with this thread title??


This thread is supposed to be for people seeking to exercise their rights or those of a family member to NHS funded health care.

monkeyspanner

hortibob wrote: »

What on earth does this have to do with this thread title??

This thread is supposed to be for people seeking to exercise their rights or those of a family member to NHS funded health care.

hortibob
Sorry, this side tracking is I am afraid my fault for answering Sonorman in the first instance. If I had looked at his other posts and length of time on MSE prior to responding I would have realised he is on some sort of moral crusade and not bothered to reply to his initial question.

realshannon

love it - say it as it is:beer:

hortibob

monkeyspanner wrote: »

hortibob
Sorry, this side tracking is I am afraid my fault for answering Sonorman in the first instance. If I had looked at his other posts and length of time on MSE prior to responding I would have realised he is on some sort of moral crusade and not bothered to reply to his initial question.

No worries....seems a bit like "tory-boy" to me but then I'm "socialist-budha-boy"....Forgotten. :beer:

Katykat

My response to Sonorman is this- Who has the right to decide which illnesses should be paid for by the NHS and which ones should be paid for by the patient?- Does this mean that everyone with Alzeimers disease should pay for there medical care but everyone with heart disease gets their medical care paid by the NHS? Alzeimers disease is terminal, NOBODY recovers from it, but heart disease ( although it can be devastating for some people) can be managed. I think Sonorman you are also missing a very important point here. NHS care is not FREE for many people. These are people who have worked all their lives ( many of them gave up their lives and their good health for 6 + years during the war, then came back and continued to contribute to the pot via their taxes). I, like Monkeyspanner, think that if a person does have assests, then they should contribute towards their living costs, but this should no way be more than their state pension. Also, although this may involve only a handful of people, it has been known for some people who have been placed in care homes, to eventually be well enough to go back to their own home. How could they, if their home has been sold to pay for their care?
Its the moral issue we are all fighting. We have already paid for our health care, why should we have to pay again when we are sick and vulnerable?