Objecting against a planning appeal.. how?

fimonkey

Hi,

I've come across a pink notice attached a lampost near my home that says there is a hearing for a planning appeal for a bungalow to be demolished and replaced with 2 blocks of 2 story flats, 8 flats in total. It says any objections by 4th April to planning office.

Firstly, I do object to these flats as they will be a cul de sac just of the high street in Highcliffe, Dorset. The street has bunglaows only so the flats will look out of place plus increase the amount of traffic in the cul de sac which is already used as a turn around for larger vehicles who deliver to shops on the high street.

I don't want to start any kind of political debate on this, or be seen as a NIMBY, I would just like some factual info on whether my concerns are valid, and if so how do I proceed?

1. I take it a planning appeal means it's already been refused once? Do I need to/ can I obtain this information (reasons why it was refused).
2. Are there set 'reasons' for which an objection can be lodged?
3. The notice says all letters will be disclosed to the party seeking the appeal (the builders). Would this be to my detriment if I did object? (I'm windering whether the builders could be malicious, my car is parked on the corner of the high street and could be 'bumped' easily by a larger builders van).
4. Anything else I need to know/should I look upi before I object?

Many thanks in advance.

hjb123

Have you checked your local council website?

Our local council you can look at planning applications online - might be worth seeing if you can in your case

Pink_Socks

If you go to the county council's website "Dorsetforyou.com", and follow the links through planning to your local authority (presumably Christchurch?), you should be able to look up the original planning application and why it was refused.

If you wish to object, then just write a letter with your objections. All will be read and the councillors will decide if your reasons are relevant.

And I doubt the builders will cause you any problems if the development does go ahead - the builders themselves will probably be subbies who have no idea of who objected and who didn't.

HTH.

Debt_Free_Chick

fimonkey wrote: »

It says any objections by 4th April to planning office.

Are you sure? Don't the objections need to go to the Planning Inspectorate? The original Planning Permission will have been dealt with by the local Planning Office (usual the Council) but appeals are dealt with by the Planning Inspectorate.

1. I take it a planning appeal means it's already been refused once? Do I need to/ can I obtain this information (reasons why it was refused).

It's not necessary to see the original reasons why PP was refused, but this can be useful. As already suggested, your local Planning Office (Council) is the place to start. They may well have the original application and all the relevant correspondence on their website.

2. Are there set 'reasons' for which an objection can be lodged?

Essentially - yes. PP can only be refused (or granted) using "planning grounds". The issues you've set out would be relevant - but look at the reasons why PP was refused too.

3. The notice says all letters will be disclosed to the party seeking the appeal (the builders). Would this be to my detriment if I did object? (I'm windering whether the builders could be malicious, my car is parked on the corner of the high street and could be 'bumped' easily by a larger builders van).

Planning is a "public" consultation. Everyone gets to see all the comments made. If you look at the application on the website, you'll see the identity of all those who've commented and exactly what their comments were.

I very much doubt that the builders will take any action. They're used to the Planning process and they know that most objections are worthless. Their application - and the appeal - will be dealt with on Planning grounds. Hundreds of people could object, but if those objections are not valid (i.e. not on planning grounds) then they will count for nothing. Even if the objections are valid, they will only raise issues which the Council and the Inspectorate would raise anyway. I am confident you have nothing to fear by objecting.

4. Anything else I need to know/should I look upi before I object?

Many thanks in advance.

Yes - have a look at the information on the Planning Inspectorate website about taking part in an appeal.

Finally - the Council must have had good reasons for refusing PP. They don't want to waste money taking part in an appeal that is likely to be successful. Having said that, the builders obviously think it's worth their time and money to appeal ... they must think there's a chance the appeal will succeed.

HTH

fimonkey

Wow thanks all, especially to DebtFreeChick, that info is invaluable... May I just clarify however... I am/was confused by the difference in plannnig office and inspectorate, the pink notice says written objections are to go to an office Bristol however (which is clearly not the local planning office, as I know this is Christchurch). Hence I'm assuming that the builders made an application to Christchurch, were refused, and so the appeal has gone to Bristol??

However, I've just checked the DorsetforYou website and found this http://webapps.christchurch.gov.uk/PlanningApplications/pages/ApplicationSearch.aspx which looks like the builders made the applicaiton to Christchurch on the 1/11/2007 which was refused, and they have again made an application dated today. This second application is now 'open for comments'... So have they re-applied to Christchurch AND appealed to Bristol? (I could be cnofused onthis so will doubnle check notice tonight, but I'm convinced it's Bristol as I remember thinking 'odd').

Also, where can I obtain a list of planning grounds please?

Finally (for now), Am I allowed to distribue info to the local residents on this (i.e the recent refusal and how to go about objecting) as they are mainly elderly residents who probably don't know how to go about objecting.

Thanks once again, I'm beginning to feel quite empowered!

Debt_Free_Chick

fimonkey wrote: »

Wow thanks all, especially to DebtFreeChick, that info is invaluable... May I just clarify however... I am/was confused by the difference in plannnig office and inspectorate, the pink notice says objections are to go to an office Bristol however (which is clearly not the local planning office, as I know this is Christchurch). Hence I'm assuming that the builders made an application to Christchurch, were refused, and so the appeal has gone to Bristol??

The original application was submitted for Planning Permission. That application will have been dealt with by the local Planning Office in Christchurch.

They will have considered the appliation and refused it.

Now ... the builders have appealed Christchurch's decision. That appeal is dealt with by the Planning Inspectorate. Yes, the appeals processing team is based in Bristol.

So therefore I can check Christchurch planning website for reasons of refusal, and then write my letter to Bristol?

Yup

Also, where can I obtain a list of planning grounds please?

LOL!!!! You need to read all the relevant legislation, all the national policies & guidelines and Christchurch's local development framework or local development plan!!!!

Or .... just look at the reasons why Christchurch refused it. Those reasons will cross refer to their policies and these are in their Local Development Framework

The LDF is the Council's way of saying "these are the circumstances under which Planning Permission will usually be granted. If you are outside of our policies, we have the right to refuse PP" .... but note that the applicant has the right to appeal (as in this case).

Thanks once again, I'm beginning to feel quite empowered!

So you should be as Planning is a Public consultation.

But don't get too optimistic - it's a 50/50 situation. Christchurch will have been certain that their grounds for refusal were sound & valid. They only have Council Taxpayers' money to spend and they wouldn't want to waste it by refusing an application which is likely to be overturned on appeal.

On the other hand ... the builders clearly think it's worth spending money on an appeal as they think they have grounds to win it.

By all means object - you have the right to do that and I don't want to dissuade you from that. But bear this in mind .... given that Christchurch Planning and the Planning Inspectorate employ people full-time with qualifications in Local Town Planning law ... how likely is it that you will find a relevant planning ground which they have overloooked? :rolleyes:

These guys know the law. If there are valid grounds to refuse it, they will do so ... even if no-one objects.

But it's an interesting process and I have to say that your grounds seem valid to me ... local amenity .... visual appearance (similar to local amenity) .... traffic .... parking ..... all valid planning grounds.

Find the original application on the C'church website, look at their reasons for refusal and read the LDF. Then ... get the appeal number from the Pink Notice, put it into the Inspectorate's search tool ... find the appeal papers and see why the builders think that C'church got it wrong.

Let us know how you get on.

fimonkey

Thanks DebtFreeChick, you're a star!

Anyone know, would it be legal for me to canvas the other residents in the close and inform them of the proposed decelopment, (I've printed the plans already from the planning website, although it says 'not for distribution, copyqright blurb' is there anything stopping me from showing these to local residents and giving them info on why it was originally refused and where to write?.. Is this a worthwhile exercise, in that the higher the number of people who object the more likely it is the objections will be taken note of and influence the appeal?

Thanks once again in advance

Edited to say, the plans I've printed are for the old development which was refused. the new plans aren't on the website yet and won;t be unitl the middle of next week).

jimc_2

Watch your back on this one!

There have been a series of 'dodgy' planning applications around here where it seemed that the application was obviously going to be knocked back (Grade II listed, local amenity, contrary to local plan etc.) but a sneaky move got it through on the appeal! In every case the tactic was the same - The original planning application was made for a ridiculously overcrowded use of the site. Despite the other reasons for refusal, the application was refused on the grounds of overdevelopment. The developer immediately appealed with a less intensive plan and, lo-and-behold, because the original refusal only mentioned overdevelopment, the new plans were approved!

We lost our grade II listed local pub and another a few miles down the road that way. The local effort put into the first campaign against the developments just couldn't be revived in time for the appeal. The developer dropped the redevelopment from the original 50 flats to 20 or so and argued that the Grade II listing was invalid because the pub-owner had replaced an old window because of break-ins. (The developer saved that for the appeal.)

Through on the nod.

Keep an eye on it and compare the old plans with the new. If the original reason for refusal was 'too intensive' watch out for a simple reduction in number of flats.

If it's any consolation here, the last time I walked past there were no fewer than 9 'For Sale' signs out front. (Incidentally that's illegal. They should only have one.)

Must be the Karma of the BTLs coming home.

fimonkey

Thanks JimC, I thought of that, but having no experience of planning, I'm not sure… The original development was for: "Demolish existing property and erect 2 1/2 storey block of 1 x 1 bedroom flats and 5 x 2 bedroom flats. To rear of site erect 2 storey units consisting of 2 x studio flats and carports (total 8 units) with associated access and parking".

The new outline says " Demolish existing property & erect 2 storey block of 4x2 bed flats & 1x1 bed flat (total 5). Erect 2 storey block of 2x1 bed flats & undercroft parking & 2 storey block of 1x1 bed flat & undercroft parking (total 3). (Total of 8 units in development)"

So overall there will still be 8 flats, the only difference I can see if the issue of parking (associated access and parking now replaced with undercroft parking). Have I missed anything?

Interestingly enough, on the website for the old refused development there are no public comments registered (I’m not surprised, I never saw an obvious notice of intended development, and as the residents around here are all elderly I doubt they did either).

The new plans aren't up on the website yet, apparently they will be by the end of next week which then gives residents just 2 weeks to object, and that's including the Easter break. GRRRR, wish the council moved that fast with other issues)!

The old plans were refused for "The proposed development for reasons of its mass, bulk and siting is considered to have a cramped over dominant and intrusive impact upon the Bucehayes close streetscene and an overbearing impact on neighbouring properties. Consequently the proposal represents overdevelopment of the site which would be harmful to the character and appearance of the area and amenities of neighbouring properties. As such, the development would be contrary to the Environment Policy H of the Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole Structure Plan (2000) and Policy H12 of the Borough of Christchurch Local Plan (2001).

Edit: Have just looked at Environment Policy H from the Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole Structure Plan, and it doesn't seem to have any obvious relevance to the plans above. The policy pertains more to open space, public parks and playing feilds being preserved for development, whereas the proposed site is on the site of an existing bungalow with a large garden that backs onto shops, so there would be no loss of 'open space' as such, as it was only ever a garden for the bungalow owners. Could this be the basis of the developers appeal do you think?

Finally (for now) can anyone please point me in the direction any other areas I should look at in terms of putting forward a better objection against this proposed development without me having to read every page of the local development framework. Are there any other frameworks I could consider? (National for example)?

fimonkey

Please????

Debt_Free_Chick

fimonkey wrote: »

Thanks JimC, I thought of that, but having no experience of planning, I'm not sure… The original development was for: "Demolish existing property and erect 2 1/2 storey block of 1 x 1 bedroom flats and 5 x 2 bedroom flats. To rear of site erect 2 storey units consisting of 2 x studio flats and carports (total 8 units) with associated access and parking".

The new outline says " Demolish existing property & erect 2 storey block of 4x2 bed flats & 1x1 bed flat (total 5). Erect 2 storey block of 2x1 bed flats & undercroft parking & 2 storey block of 1x1 bed flat & undercroft parking (total 3). (Total of 8 units in development)"

So overall there will still be 8 flats, the only difference I can see if the issue of parking (associated access and parking now replaced with undercroft parking). Have I missed anything?

This is all part of the appeal process. If you read the reasons for refusal of the original application, it might well refer to "density" .... What the planners are saying is "No - not this number of flats on this plot. (But we will probably agree to fewer)". This is why it's important to look at the reasons for refusal. If the reason for refusal for the original application was "outside of the development curtilege" that would tell you that no development on this plot is likely to succeed. But if the reason is "density" or a similar reason, then you are being told that some development is likely to succeed ... just not at this level.

Interestingly enough, on the website for the old refused development there are no public comments registered (I’m not surprised, I never saw an obvious notice of intended development, and as the residents around here are all elderly I doubt they did either).

Most folk don't know anything about the planning system. And if they do, they don't normally object on the right grounds.

Now .... if you lived in the countryside and the development was for a mobile home on a field ..... well ... there would be hundreds of objections. But that's another story.

The new plans aren't up on the website yet, apparently they will be by the end of next week which then gives residents just 2 weeks to object, and that's including the Easter break. GRRRR, wish the council moved that fast with other issues)!

Are you sure this is going to appeal? Or are the developers simply making a new application with new plans? Normally, on appeal, new plans don't go on the local planning office's website. Once the appeal is lodged, everything then goes to the Planning Inspectorate.

Do you want to post a link to the old application on the website?

The old plans were refused for "The proposed development for reasons of its mass, bulk and siting is considered to have a cramped over dominant and intrusive impact upon the Bucehayes close streetscene and an overbearing impact on neighbouring properties. Consequently the proposal represents overdevelopment of the site which would be harmful to the character and appearance of the area and amenities of neighbouring properties. As such, the development would be contrary to the Environment Policy H of the Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole Structure Plan (2000) and Policy H12 of the Borough of Christchurch Local Plan (2001).

My opinion is that a smaller scale development WILL get permission.

Edit: Have just looked at Environment Policy H from the Bournemouth, Dorset and Poole Structure Plan, and it doesn't seem to have any obvious relevance to the plans above. The policy pertains more to open space, public parks and playing feilds being preserved for development, whereas the proposed site is on the site of an existing bungalow with a large garden that backs onto shops, so there would be no loss of 'open space' as such, as it was only ever a garden for the bungalow owners. Could this be the basis of the developers appeal do you think?

Quite possibly ... though I'd like to see the original application to be able to comment.


I think, at the end of the day ... the right sized development on this plot is going to get permission. So you then need to decide whether to object, or not.

Finally (for now) can anyone please point me in the direction any other areas I should look at in terms of putting forward a better objection against this proposed development without me having to read every page of the local development framework. Are there any other frameworks I could consider? (National for example)?[/quote]