Getting ebay Vero to play ball

jago25_98

It is ok to use someone elses trademark without their permission as long as it isn't lying to the consumer.
So, if I want to sell a generic Vaccum Cleaner I am within my rights to put `Hoover` in the title as long as it is clear it isn't made by Hoover.
This is also ok - `like TomTom` - `like Oakley` and so on - as long as it is clear it isn't an original.

What power do we have to enforce Vero to follow the law like this?

By the way, I have little to gain from this; it's just something I feel.

""There are common law trademarks, but for the most part, a trademark should be registered. Unlike patents and copyright, trademarks aren't designed to expire and can last as long as they're used in commerce and don't become generic. Also, despite attempts to expand what trademark rights grant, they do not confer the same level of control over the mark. Others can make use of trademarks, just not in commerce in ways that are likely to confuse users. Competitors, for example, can use the mark in a comparison or an advertisement (this is sometimes disputed, but it tends to stand).

Because of the risk of losing a trademark if it becomes generic, there's a belief that trademark holders are required to police its use -- which, again, is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes, trademark holders are required to take certain steps to keep a mark from becoming considered generic and potentially losing the mark, but that doesn't mean threatening or suing anyone who uses the mark. As we've stated, there are many perfectly legitimate ways to make use of someone else's trademark, and going after those uses is not necessary (though, it still happens all too frequently).
""

digerati

jago25_98 wrote: »

It is ok to use someone elses trademark without their permission as long as it isn't lying to the consumer.

In a word NO. You might be infringing on their trademark (see below).

jago25_98 wrote: »

So, if I want to sell a generic Vaccum Cleaner I am within my rights to put `Hoover` in the title as long as it is clear it isn't made by Hoover.

eBay specifically say you can't do this within titles as it consider keyword spam. You can do so within the body of the description - provided nobody complains to the registered trademark holder or eBay...

soolin

Regardless of whether it is ebay or not you can't use someone trademark or name to sell a product that isn't made by them..so I am not quite sure where this post was heading.

You use the example 'Hoover' but that is a brand..so why would anyone want to sell a non Hoover -Hoover, it makes no sense at all. If you are selling a Dyson then sell a Dyson, an Electrolux, and Electrolux etc

As for 'like'..again why Oakley sunglasses are oakley..if you sell fakes then be prpeared to face the law not just Vero. If I want oakley glasses I'll buy them, if not I'll stick with own brands that aren't being mis sold.

I assume that people want to sell a sat nav as being 'like Tom Tom' for instance as Tom Tom might be considered the best brand ..therefore they are agreeing that they are making use of a name or trademark to sell a lesser product, and that explains why companies don't like it. You can't use a companies reputation or marketing to sell a product that is not made by them.

syanide

you cannot even reference other brands or compare them in your description. I know this because Apple tried their hardest to get our stuff kicked off ebay using every possible reason to get the items removed. They even got our adverts removed for informing buyers of the following 'NOTE: this item is not an ipod nano and was not manufactured by apple' at the end of our adverts
. So much for ebay caring and wanting customers fully informated of what are buying.

FloFlo

Key word spamming is a pain, I was trying to look for some crocs for my DD but got fed up of wading through crappy listings of 'like crocs' 'crocs'ies' 'imitation crocs' .

jago25_98

How do I find non official Crocs?
How does the vocabulary imparied find a Hoover that isn't made by Hoover? Now, what was the name of that `good other make` you really wanted?
How do you search for Selotape (single sided sticky tape??)?
How do I find clear plastic to the grade of Perspex that isn't Perspex?

It turns out that the law allows adverts to refer to competitors, as long as the consumer isn't being mislead.

But ebay chooses to go beyond this. That's ok, maybe.

It's ebay's job to help me find what I'm looking to buy. Sometimes I want the real thing, sometimes I don't
- it depends if I feel product lifecycle is built into the more expensive product.

Trademarked words become more than trademarks through everyday usage.

See the problem now?

Come on, we're Moneysavingexperts, we don't fall for the brand thing do we?


I understand keyword spamming is a problem if you want the brand.
Why not have a remove keyword spammed results from search results box.

frivolous_fay

jago25_98 wrote: »

How do I find non official Crocs?
How does the vocabulary imparied find a Hoover that isn't made by Hoover? Now, what was the name of that `good other make` you really wanted?
How do you search for Selotape (single sided sticky tape??)?
How do I find clear plastic to the grade of Perspex that isn't Perspex?

How do people find these things off ebay? Cheap vacuum cleaners don't mention hoovers and dysons in their advertising!

jago25_98 wrote: »

But ebay chooses to go beyond this. That's ok, maybe.

Well... I wonder how many buyer complaints it took from people being misled by keyword spammers before they set up the VERO programme? Ebay give the brand owners the tool, and they use it. I doubt they have much of a say now they have enabled the companies to have listings pulled whenever they like.

jago25_98 wrote: »

It turns out that the law allows It's ebay's job to help me find what I'm looking to buy. Sometimes I want the real thing, sometimes I don't
- it depends if I feel product lifecycle is built into the more expensive product.
.............
Come on, we're Moneysavingexperts, we don't fall for the brand thing do we?

Slight contradiction here... me, I would only buy an unbranded thing if the brand really didn't matter. You won't see me shopping at Cheap Hong Kong Knockoffs R Us for an iPod.

jago25_98 wrote: »

I understand keyword spamming is a problem if you want the brand. Why not have a remove keyword spammed results from search results box.

And here I think you have the crux of the matter... how the hell would the 'remove spam words' tool tell the difference between keyword spam... and the real thing? Ergo, you need rules against keyword spamming, which can only adequately by identified by a human.

FloFlo

jago25_98 wrote: »

How do I find non official Crocs?
How does the vocabulary imparied find a Hoover that isn't made by Hoover? Now, what was the name of that `good other make` you really wanted?
How do you search for Selotape (single sided sticky tape??)?
How do I find clear plastic to the grade of Perspex that isn't Perspex?

It turns out that the law allows adverts to refer to competitors, as long as the consumer isn't being mislead.

But ebay chooses to go beyond this. That's ok, maybe.

It's ebay's job to help me find what I'm looking to buy. Sometimes I want the real thing, sometimes I don't
- it depends if I feel product lifecycle is built into the more expensive product.

Trademarked words become more than trademarks through everyday usage.

See the problem now?

Come on, we're Moneysavingexperts, we don't fall for the brand thing do we?


I understand keyword spamming is a problem if you want the brand.
Why not have a remove keyword spammed results from search results box.

When it comes to providing my daughter with quality footwear that protects her growing feet I am afraid I go for brand and quality everytime. Being a moneysaver doesn't mean you buy the cheapest [EMAIL="!!!!"]!!!![/EMAIL] going it means you buy what you need at the best prices.

FYI there is no such thing as unofficial crocs they either are or they aren't and I think Ebay should be stricter on key word spamming not more lenient. We want people using ebay to do so easily not trawl through pages of fakes and lookilikies.

There are search facilities for general searches for particular sizes of shoes if you want to look for unbranded products. There is absolutely no need for genuine sellers to keyword spam or mislead buyers.

jago25_98

Wrong wrong and wrong. Once again the whole world is wrong and I'm right again ;-)

You see, both of your arguments go for a either/or argument.

It turns out that we can have both. By allowing the advertiser to be honest about the goods; to claim that they are either refering to a trademark or a word in common use.


re:Cheap ipods bit offtopic? We know ipods matter

"FYI there is no such thing as unofficial crocs they either are or they aren't and I think Ebay should be stricter on key word spamming not more lenient. We want people using ebay to do so easily not trawl through pages of fakes and lookilikies."

Perhaps you're right. Can you describe the Choc cheap look-a-likes without using the word Croc for me to prove yourself :j

I loves a good argument. Can we make up and make out after?

FloFlo

Yes 'cheap plastic shoes' or be honest and list them as the cheap brand actually on them.

FloFlo

I wouldn't make out with anyone not in head to Dolce & Gabana, darling!

Lol, I am the least stylish brand orientated person I know but I like to buy quality. In the end I gave up wading through the dodgy listings and bought 2 pairs from sweefeetshoes 17.5% off and free postage made them cheaper than ebay.