Credit Cards in Canada

hansi

Does anyone know if Chip and Pin is used for transactions in Canada yet please?

BenL

I was there in November 06 and Chip & Pin wasn't used in the shops and malls.

Someone else has probably been since.

Nationwide Credit Card was used by me no probs.

jamescredmond

I was in vancouver last august and - nope - no chip and pin.

hansi

Thanks, The reason I asked was that my NW card was used in Canada in December 07 when I was at home and NW have told me that a PIN was used and accepted. Now I think they might be trying to pull a fast one because they had already refunded all the fraudulent transactions to my account and cancelled the card. Today they sent me an unsigned letter saiying that the card's PIN had been used in Canada and all the item's (£1000+) would appear on my next statement. I'm trying to fight it but it's their word against mine although I feel I am entitled to see a copy of the fraudulent transactions? Anyone else had this problem? There is no way I would have given my PIN to anyone as I keep it secret, (don't even write it down). Can anyone give me any advice please?

gt94sss2

hansi wrote: »

Does anyone know if Chip and Pin is used for transactions in Canada yet please?

Its used in some places but they are several years behind the UK in rolling it out.

They call 'Chip and Pin' by its 'true name' there - try googling for EMV in Canada

I also suggest you read 12.11 and 12.12 of the UK Banking Code

Regards
Sunil

simongregson

There was one merchant that we visited back in October which required a PIN. the merchant had only just got a terminal and was a bit surprised as their cards don't even have chips yet!

Were you in Canada at the time in question. I would have thought that if you were in the UK at the time it would be a pretty open and shut case and that they need to return your money!

NickX

simongregson wrote: »

I would have thought that if you were in the UK at the time it would be a pretty open and shut case and that they need to return your money!

I completely agree with you here Simon Gregson, however the banks seem to be taking the stance that Chip and Pin is infallable, therefore the customer must have compromised their account by releasing PIN details.

My advice would be to dispute the transactions with the Credit Card company and if they do not satisfactorily resolve the situation, then take your case to the Ombudsman.

simongregson

If it was a credit card and not a debit card your maximum liability is limited to £50 even if you have been negligent with your PIN, as this is your maximum liability under the terms of your credit agreement made under the terms of the consumer credit act. You could even write your PIN on the front of the card, although I wouldn't recommend this! The bank will not tell you this.

However, whatever card you used, your bank's responsibility is to prove that you acted negligently, it is not your responsibility to prove that you didn't. If the bank will not resolve this, ask them for a deadlock letter and refer your complaint to the ombudsman. They have recently stated that in many cases the bank have not followed the banking code and that the onus of proof is upon them.

I would have thought that:
1. You can show that you were in the UK at the time - receipts, your workplace etc.
2. You can prove that your card was in the UK at the time - e.g you have bought something on your card in the time.
3. The bank can't prove that your card was used for the transaction. Ask them to supply the transaction slip, it should have a 'cryptogram number' on it that allows it to be matched with your genuine card if chip and pin was used. It is highly unlikely that a counterfeit card with a chip was used for the transaction, far more likely your PIN was compromised and a magnetic swipe card was used.

In which case you should get your money back without having to rely on the first point.

NickX

Very interesting information here SimonGregson, especially regarding the £50 limit to the customer liability.

I have certainly heard of cases where Banks have refused to refund fraudulent transactions where the transactions have been confirmed to have been "Chip and Pin". On this basis, it does appear that they have been ignoring the Banking Code. They should be brought to account over this.

I certainly agree that the OP should make a formal complaint to the Credit Card company and request all fraudulent transactions are refunded. If they do not appear to comply, then definitely take the case to the Ombudsman. Good Luck.

hansi

simongregson wrote: »

There was one merchant that we visited back in October which required a PIN. the merchant had only just got a terminal and was a bit surprised as their cards don't even have chips yet!

Were you in Canada at the time in question. I would have thought that if you were in the UK at the time it would be a pretty open and shut case and that they need to return your money!

Yes, I was in the UK at the tme.

hansi

I was in the UK at the time, but I only use this card for overseas transactions, so I don't use it in the UK. I'm still in negotiations with them, but I didn't know that my maximum liability is limited to £50. That's interesting.

simongregson wrote: »

If it was a credit card and not a debit card your maximum liability is limited to £50 even if you have been negligent with your PIN, as this is your maximum liability under the terms of your credit agreement made under the terms of the consumer credit act. You could even write your PIN on the front of the card, although I wouldn't recommend this! The bank will not tell you this.

However, whatever card you used, your bank's responsibility is to prove that you acted negligently, it is not your responsibility to prove that you didn't. If the bank will not resolve this, ask them for a deadlock letter and refer your complaint to the ombudsman. They have recently stated that in many cases the bank have not followed the banking code and that the onus of proof is upon them.

I would have thought that:
1. You can show that you were in the UK at the time - receipts, your workplace etc.
2. You can prove that your card was in the UK at the time - e.g you have bought something on your card in the time.
3. The bank can't prove that your card was used for the transaction. Ask them to supply the transaction slip, it should have a 'cryptogram number' on it that allows it to be matched with your genuine card if chip and pin was used. It is highly unlikely that a counterfeit card with a chip was used for the transaction, far more likely your PIN was compromised and a magnetic swipe card was used.

In which case you should get your money back without having to rely on the first point.