New Govt petition / British Telecom spying

albertross_2

Ironically, The Guardian use the Phorm/OIX targetted ads

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:G_f92jjjde8J:www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/mar/05/privacy.internet.phorm+guardian+phorm&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk

DatabaseError

But it's clear that with millions of customers, the benefits would only accrue if millions take part - which will never happen in an opt-in scheme.

long time since i was in school, but i thought it was bad to start a sentence with the word "But", considering the guardian's (presumed) target audience (teachers), hopefully a correlation will be made between the quality of writing and that of the reporting.

BT, which calls the scheme "Webwise" (webwise.bt.com), notes that you can turn off the monitoring by permanently blocking the cookie from oix.net

Lie!

"Our privacy claims have been audited by Ernst & Young;"

and accountants understand the issues how, exactly?

"Privacy International have done a privacy impact assessment, and they will be doing spot checks.

possibly true, nothing on PIs site to confirm/deny, again, they're qualified in what way?

BBC "Mr Davies said he remained opposed to services which required users to opt out."

that's mr davies from privacy international.

Users get one benefit: if they try to access a phishing site that is listed on a database available to Phorm, a warning will appear on the browser

available free, without spy/adware in firefox and others, one obvious question, if phorm will 'turn off' phishing sites today, could it not 'turn off' other types of sites in the future? peer2peer? warez? extremist (political)? human rights?

this is a very slippery slope, one the door is opened it will be impossible to close

codger

bill: agreed re 'Watchdog' -- the fact that I don't have much faith in it hasn't prevented me from emailing it (twice!) about this issue. As a "mass audience" access it is pretty valuable.

But on some occasions I've seen it (and its presenters) confounded / sidetracked by their "quarry" whenever such chose to appear on screen. So I guess my biggest fear isn't that 'Watchdog' won't get around to this story, but that when they do, they might make such a shambles of it that the "mass audience" winds up so confused, it shrugs helplessly and walks away. Hope not!

tony: love your forensics. And yes, what twaddle:

"Our privacy claims have been audited by Ernst & Young" is a drop from the same ocean within which certain other money-grubbers once swam:

"Our business model has been validated again and again by no less a respected authority than Arthur Andersen" (ENRON, 2000).

Yeah, right. Ordinary punters like me need the reassurance of multinational accountancy firms like Custer needed the reassurance of more Indians around his camp fire.

Oh, by way of a quickie query: this was posted in response to a Mail on Sunday news report in January this year. I can't quite follow the gist of it, so any help from wiser heads here really would be appreciated!

"There's a rather large problem with this selling of customer data though.
under the UK Data Protection Act and EU law, this business model falls into the Opt In rule , you can't use an Opt out rule.
also, the IP of an ISP end user is strictly covered as personal data, and as so, the users property.
said user can at any time, send a DPA request to the ISP to remove any and all rights to process or export this data should they wish or is given reason to such as exporting to a 3rd party for profit.

the ISP/3rd party data controller can not refuse to abide by the consumers instructions given, and these instructions outway any T&C or other document a company might try and put in place."

The conclusion -- how a fundamental issue over-rides all else -- I can follow, but the earlier stuff. . ?



* Whoops: meant to add, I've today received my quarterly BT phone bill. The envelope's stuffed with the usual carp about BT services but under the section headed "KEEPING YOU INFORMED" there's the following little gem:

* All references to contractual changes which are to your "significant disadvantage" have been changed to "material disadvantage". These changes are for clarification purposes only.

Anyone still naive enough to believe that British Telecom's PR & marketing department doesn't agonise over every word BT says and prints lest it be too readily comprehendable -- and therefore potentially damaging to BT's benevolent corporate image -- ought to keep that change of wording in mind when assessing the worth of anything BT may say about its Phorm proposal.

If British Telecom can obscure the truth, then that's exactly what it will seek to do. Every time.

DatabaseError

* All references to contractual changes which are to your "significant disadvantage" have been changed to "material disadvantage". These changes are for clarification purposes only.

i don't know the context, but that could be the first step, many small changes to the t+c, none significant enough in themselves to cause a mass exodus, when phorm arrives it could already be covered in the t+c changes.

codger

Yup.

Anyway, I've just emailed BT to ask them not to send me any more mailings.

My annual contract with them for broadband expires in June, but yesterday they asked me to sign up for another 12 months now (though the contract would be from June) so as to qualify for a £3 per month reduction. They haven't pulled this early-discount stuff in recent years so I suspect it has a great deal to do with trying to consolidate their customer base now before word of the Phorm issue gets too widespread.

I've advised BT that whilst the reduction is of some material advantage it is more than outweighed by the significant disadvantage of any association with any ISP that's tied up with Phorm.

Incidentally, I see BT is now emblazoning its snail-mail correspondence with the following logo:

COMPANY OF THE YEAR AWARDS 2008 Business & Community

I guess the award is thoroughly deserved if you're in the business of selling communities' civil rights for profit.

fwor

codger wrote: »

They haven't pulled this early-discount stuff in recent years so I suspect it has a great deal to do with trying to consolidate their customer base now before word of the Phorm issue gets too widespread.

For several years now they've been desperate enough to keep user base that if you phone them for a MAC to switch to another ISP, they will instantly offer you a discount not to. But I've heard that other ISPs do that as well.

The petition that you brought to our attention:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm

is growing slowly - now getting close to 2000 signatures - but I'm guessing it's way too small to be visible at ministerial (or even secretarial) level unless it gets a lot more publicity...

deary65

If any one whats to have the information held on them by computers removed, it seems both the common law and statue law, including EC law will assist in this matter.
In English law there are two types of property ownership, real&personal, real which refers to land and personality which refers to everything else. Unlike land, personality can be owned in the absolute sense. The information held forms part of your personality and as such is owned absolutely, it in fact ,tells part of your life story the copyright of which is owned by you. In other words the profile they are building belongs to you. You have the right to legally prevent them from doing so and have any information removed this includes credit reference agencies.

Under the UK Data Protection Act and EU law, this business model falls into the Opt In rule , you can't use an Opt out rule.
also, the IP of an ISP end user is strictly covered as personal data, and as so, the users property.
said user can at any time, send a DPA request to the ISP to remove any and all rights to process or export this data should they wish or is given reason to such as exporting to a 3rd party for profit.

the ISP/3rd party data controller can not refuse to abide by the consumers instructions given, and these instructions outway any T&C or other document a company might try and put in place."

I don't think these people will be happy until such time as we are all economic robots!

HoofeHearted

On working lunch this lunchtime on BBC2, the boss of Phorm was in the studio answering questions. He said that when launced, you would be asked if you wanted to opt in or opt out! We will have to see.

BillScarab

Isn't that a contradiction? Either you are automatically in with an option to opt out or you are automatically out with a choice to opt in.

Still as you say we'll have to wait and see.

deary65

HoofeHearted wrote: »

On working lunch this lunchtime on BBC2, the boss of Phorm was in the studio answering questions. He said that when launced, you would be asked if you wanted to opt in or opt out! We will have to see.

I to watched the program, and the man struck me as someone who knows they are legally on a sticky wicket.