Cheaper Water Bills Article Discussion

Andy_WSM

Kevin16 wrote: »

I think everyone including Martins Money Tip should put pressure on the Governments, Councils and Water Companies to change this once and for all, what do you think, take a stand and make them change, thank you

There's no point putting pressure on them to make a change. What would happen is that some people will gain due to lower water bills and others will lose due to higher water bills and every single customer will end up paying a small amount towards implimenting the change. The water companies will not lose out, they are privatised and their shareholders expect them to make xx% of profit.

Every customer has the right to have a water meter fitted and in the future every house will have a meter anyway, which is a much fairer way of paying for water. Use it, pay for it, exactly the same as the other utilities.

Cardew

Kevin16 wrote: »

I live in Affordable Housing and have United Utilities as my water company, 2 weeks ago I first registered with United Utilities online after seeing how high my water bill was £42.58**, so I rang then and asked why?
They said that my flat had to pay 'Rateable Value Tax' I never heard about it till them! So I said why are the other 3 flats not paying as much, I asked my neighbours how much they paid first, they said £18.58, but United Utilities said they could not comment on other customers bills, I said fine, why cant you lower my bill to the same level as theirs?
I was again told because you have RV, so they could not do this as the Government and City Council 'Liverpool' I should ring the Variable Tax Office and my MP? So I rang the Variable Tax Office and they told me that they have it rite? So I asked why, they said that the Variable Tax Office had binned the use of RV in the 1960 but the water companies where allowed to still use it, even though everyone else including the Variable Tax Office no longer use it and use instead the Tax Band that each person is in as this is abetter way to level the playing field.
I was surprised and asked them why United Utilities still use the RV instead of the Tax Band system? They said each company used what ever one they feel fit! I said but if you do not use it and no one else used it, why cant you as the Variable Tax Office tell them to use the same Tax Band system, he agreed but said they could do nothing until the Government and City Councils, dis the RV and make everyone use the Tax Band system.
I pay £252.23** a year and it is classed under Waste Water? Something that we take for granted when we look at our bills, as I have always lived in a flat, I just paid what my bill said and that is that! Until now...
So I pay £252.23 a year, that comes to over a 11 year period that I did not know I had RV the grand sum of £33.426.36. I was shocked to see this and to see that not only did the Housing Association not tell me nor did United Utilities!
Now I have been told that I must get a water meter? So why did they never tell me this in the 11yrs that I live in this flat? No one else has a water meter in the 4 flats, but I am forced to have one or pay this inflated water bill! I find this ridiculous that United Utilities did not tell me before! I am on disability and can hardly afford to have my water bill so high.
So to anyone out there who has not got a water meter, look closely at your bill and if you have Rateable Value Tax Charges, call your water company and get a water meter as soon as you can.
The problem seems to be in the way water companies Like United Utilities can still use this RV to make money! but other water companies use the Tax Band to bill you, I think it is about time that the Government and Local Council got to grips with this and stop it, make RV obsolete and make Water Companies like United Utilities use the Tax Band to bill their costumers.
I think everyone including Martins Money Tip should put pressure on the Governments, Councils and Water Companies to change this once and for all, what do you think, take a stand and make them change, thank you

Firstly you are mistaken that other water companies can use the Council Tax banding system. All companies must by law use the Rateable Value(RV) system for non-metered properties*. This is laid down in the various Water Acts(of Parliament)


Obviously it is stupid to use a system(RV) that was based on the notional rent a property could command as long ago as 1973, and was abolished as a means of collecting 'local taxes' in April 1990. However unless the government change the law, the system will remain until metering is made compulsory.


* Some properties cannot have a meter fitted so get an assessed charge. However you must apply for a meter first. That may be the position for the other flats in your block?? Also do you pay for Surface Water Drainage(SWD) and they don't?


** You pay £252.33 a year. so what is the bill of £42.58?


Incidentally even if you had paid £252.33 a year for 11 years(and it was a lot less in previous years) it wouldn't come to 'the grand sum of £33.426.36' it would be £2,775.63

WiseOldOwl_2

Your article says that the average household will pay £100+ less per year.

My annual bill has gone UP by £50. We are a 4 person house with garden. Our bill says our consumption is equal to that of a 2 person house with garden.

Please explain how this can be.

Cardew

WiseOldOwl wrote: »

Your article says that the average household will pay £100+ less per year.

My annual bill has gone UP by £50. We are a 4 person house with garden. Our bill says our consumption is equal to that of a 2 person house with garden.

Please explain how this can be.

Welcome to the forum.


To what article are you referring?


The average metered consumption in UK is 50 to 55 cubic metres per person, per year.


Some houses have a very low Rateable Value(RV) and therefor a meter will turn out to be more expensive.


If you can state the company who supplies your water and sewerage, and the RV from your old bill, we can work out some figures.

Mycatscalledozz

we are with south west water and just moved from metered to a property that can't have a meter fitted because it has a shared water source and we are saving over £400 a year.

Metered we were paying around £240 per quarter. Now we pay a flat rate of £42 per month.

matelodave

WiseOldOwl wrote: »

Your article says that the average household will pay £100+ less per year.

My annual bill has gone UP by £50. We are a 4 person house with garden. Our bill says our consumption is equal to that of a 2 person house with garden.

Please explain how this can be.

Are you checking your bill and your meter.

When you first get a meter the supplier has no idea of how much you are going to use so just has a guess (estimate?). When the meter has been read a couple of times they can then see if you are using more or less than their guess and will hopefully adjust your bill to reflect this.

You have the opportunity to read your meter daily, weekly or monthly to check how much you are using yourself. You can then try and reduce how much you use, because if you reduce your consumption you would reduce your bill.

Taking shorter showers, shallower baths or fewer of them can make a big difference as can not letting water run down the sink when washing, rinsing or cleaning your teeth. Only put as much water as you need in the kettle. The washing machine or dishwasher use as much water and electricity when half full as they do when full so make sure they are fully loaded before using them.

Most water companies will give away water saving devices like flow restrictors for your taps or shower head. If the four of you each take a 5 minute shower instead of a 10 minute one every day you could easily save 50cum a year = £200, fitting a flow restrictor could save even more.

Using less water should also save on your energy bills by reducing the amount that needs to be heated.

Lynocat

We switched to a water meter in April. We were paying £1065pa based on RV and based on doing the Consumer Council for Water - water meter calculator survey, it looked likely we could make a saving. (link in original MSE article)

The water company started us on an initial monthly charge of £66 which would assume a cost of £792 pa. I was concerned that we would use a lot of water over the summer having more showers etc and especially with watering the vegetable garden and pots so planned to read meter at 6 months so that I had plenty of time to switch back to RV if necessary, Our bill arrived yesterday based on five months usage to 10/9/14 and they are reducing our DD to £45 from October. This means a saving of nearly £380 this year.

We are careful with water usage and do use water butts in veg garden but they quickly ran dry this summer, we still use the washing machine up to 10x per week, dishwasher everyday etc but it seems we have made a saving without having to drastically change our lifes.

On the point about water leaks, I'm not sure if it is the case with all water companies but a friend of mine who is with Anglian Water discovered there is something call leakage allowance Quote from his FB page "Anglian Water may just be my favourite water supplier. Apparently there is such a thing as leakage allowance which means I won't have to pay for all the water a faulty hose relentlessly sprayed onto my garden for 10 days".

I'm sure not everyone will make a saving but it certainly looks like we have !:rotfl:

water_man

For those in the Severn Trent Water region, there will be a very cheap shower head offer at the beginning of February.

anotheruser

I think a lot of the "tips" are simply awful and not really worth doing.

Don't flush if it's just a wee?
Okay, but then enjoy a honking toilet area after a while. Plus, if you're ill, you want something clean rather than something that is likely to make you throw up even more, surely?


Take showers:
I'm sure most people do this already these days. I take more baths in the winter, however I am one of the increasingly small numbers of people who still have a bath! A lot of modern houses only have showers - converted by "investors" who want to keep costs down.


Turn off the tap when brushing your teeth:
Seriously... who lets the water run while brushing teeth? That's simply laziness.


Steam your veggies:
I would say only old school people boil vegies these days. I don't know anyone who does; they stir-fry or steam. And with the advent of "steam in the bag microwave" becoming more and more popular, boiling really is a thing of the past.


Clean the car using waterless valeting products:
You've tried this yes?
They are awful and don't clean anything, especially at this time of year.


Fill up empty bottles while you wait for [the water] to heat up:
I didn't think of this one, but 1) I don't have spare plastic bottles around for this 2) My tap takes only a few seconds to heat up


Fish tank water is good for plants:
Perhaps the only good tip so far...


Use rainwater for flushing the loo:
But spend lots setting a system up, or spend time doing it all manually. Both of which a lot of people don't have, especially with the eco flushes of today.


Fix leaky taps:
Why anyone wouldn't is beyond me. If it's broken, FIX IT! Not just for the 500ml you might save over the year, but because it's broken!


Turn off the tap when you shower:
I spend less than 5 mins in the shower as it is, but having water constantly soaking me, I feel is cleaner as it's washing away dirt straight away.

---

I don't understand people who are paying £500 a year!
I pay £200. In the past I have paid £143 for the year - non metered. Perhaps my local water company is just cheap as chips.

Personally, water isn't something that will save me mega bucks, so the extra £20 I may spend over the year, if I was metered, isn't worth the hassle.

Just my opinion, of course :P

Cardew

anotheruser wrote: »

I don't understand people who are paying £500 a year!
I pay £200. In the past I have paid £143 for the year - non metered. Perhaps my local water company is just cheap as chips.

Personally, water isn't something that will save me mega bucks, so the extra £20 I may spend over the year, if I was metered, isn't worth the hassle.

Just my opinion, of course :P

Your points in the post above about your situation are negated by this last statement. If you are non-metered it doesn't matter how much water you use - you pay the same.


To only pay £143 a year non-metered simply means your property has a low rateable Value(RV) which was probably assessed as long ago as 1973 based on the rent the property could then command.


You are correct that there is a huge disparity between water costs in UK with some areas(the South West) paying over 3 times as much as some other areas.


On your point about not understanding £500 bills, The average consumption in UK is approx. 55 cubic metres per person per year. So for a family of four, 220 cubic metres.


The average cost in UK is £2.50 to £3.50 per cubic metre for water/sewerage. So that would cost £550 to £770 pa and on top of that are standing charges for both water and sewerage and Surface Water Drainage(if applicable)


In the South West that would cost over £1,000.