Eviction Notice. Complicated Situation - Need Advice

Debt_Free_Chick

My understanding is that the notice period is still at least 2 calendar months to expire on a rent day.

However, the rent day is not straightforward , as it should have been recalculated when the original AST ended. The original AST ended on Sunday 26 Nov 2006. So the STP began on Monday 27 Nov ..... and, with rent paid weekly, the STP was renewed each following Monday.

Perhaps he paid rent for w/c Monday 27 Nov 2006 on Sat 25 Nov 2006?

Perhaps one for Shelter or CAB? so they can look at the original AST.

PasturesNew

QA quick google threw this up:

http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/documents/rent_arrears/section21.shtml

It says: "The notice has to be at least 2 calendar months long"

It then goes on to mention where rents are weekly, but certainly the notice HAS to be 2 months. So that might imply that where rent is collected weekly then it is 2 months from the next rent date (weekly).

As yet we don't know the date the first Section 21 was issued. And whether that was a rent day.

But in any case, if I were the OP I'd go for the ignorance route and claim that it was issued in error and hope the bunch of fools he is dealing with do issue him with a new one on 27th March.

OP. For the record, once you do get your 2 months' notice issued, if you then find a new place sooner, you have to give 1 month's notice (again counted from a rent date).

I hadn't spotted the weekly paid in the original posting, it was late, the posting was long.... being weekly it does make the calculation of correct dates harder. But it seems like his LL and LA are clueless anyway, so I think so long as he speaks authoritatively they'll bend to whatever he says

The fact that the original landlord had said he'd remove the Section 21 if arrears were repaid in time is irrelevant since a Section 21 can be issued at any future point anyway (arrears or not). So this new landlord wants the property vacated (presumably to paint it magnolia nd put new laminate flooring down before letting it out again at a higher rent).

blue_monkey_2

Hi OP

I would go to CAB so they can establish what date your rent day is. You have been served a Section 21 which is a notice to leave, not an eviction notice. You can remain in the property and the landlord then has to go to the court and ask them for possession of the property and the court will then give you a date to leave.

If you want to leave or can find something else then now would probably be the time to do so but remain in the property and continue paying the rent. I would speak to CAB or email shelter and ask them for their advice in themeantime though. Although you are paying weekly I would have thought the court would still view this as being a periodic tenancy and the 'rent day' would be 27th, ending on 26th, just that your rent is collected weekly. As your new LL will have to serve you with a Section 21 Notice the date will have to be that of your DD date and you need to tell your current LL that the date is wrong and if he says it is not then tell them to let the judge decide. It takes 2 months to get to court so that will give you time to find something else in the meantime. The court will want to see the original AST and will take this into consideration - having no written tenancy agreement will mean that it has to go to a hearing rather than just the judge deciding in your absence.

To give you an idea of time. We were issued with a S21 on 3rd December, to leave on 2nd Feb. We are still in the house and the court date to give us an eviction date - which you can fight if you do not want to leave and you want to give your reasons forward - is 2nd April, you can ask the court for up to 6 weeks to leave if it will cause you hardship.

However, if you wanted to stay in the property why not ask your new LL for somewhere else to live whilst yours is renovated and see what he as to say, or maybe he has something else to ofer ou instead.

I think it sounds like the old LL knew he was selling so wanted to make sure he got the money from you before he went.

Go to CAB and send an email to Shelter, I had more success with this than trying to call.

PasturesNew

Right. Had a Google round and it seems as though:

Where a tenancy has ended and gone onto a periodic tenancy, if the rent is then collected weekly then a Section 21 can be issued on any rent date to end on the day before a rent date.

So if you pay rent on a Saturday, the Section 21 must end on a Friday.

There MUST be 2 months' notice given.

So, adding those two up, I'd say it is:

If the Section 21 is issued on a Saturday, look forward in the calendar by two months and then the following Friday is the date when the Section 21 gives the leaving date.

So now we need the rent day of the OP and we can calculate if the original one was legal.

Looking at it this way, if the OP's rent day is a Saturday and a Section 21 was issued next Saturday this would yield a moving out date of:
Saturday 8 March - issued (Saturday being a rent day)
Thursday 8 May - 2 months is up
Friday 9 May - moving out day (Friday being a day before a rent day)

Wintersun_3

Thanks for all the helpful replies there, from all of you. Can't thank you enough for all of your advice.

Now I'll try and answer some of the questions posed as best I can.

My Rent Day with my Previous Landlord was every Saturday. On the original Tenancy Agreement given to me on the 27/05/06, it states '£70 per week payable in advance on the Saturday of each week.' This Tenancy agreement expired on the 27/11/06 as it was for Six Months, and no further Tenancy has ever been written up since this one has expired. Not with my Previous Landlord, or with this New Landlord.

The Section 21 from my Previous Landlord was issued to me on the 05/01/08 giving me 2 months Notice from that period. So if this Notice still legally stands then I have just 3 days left before I have to move, and prevent a Court Order being taken out against me.

The strangest thing about all of this, which I never commented on before, is that when I first moved in I had a completely different Landlord to my Previous Landlord. As my original Landlord when I first moved in was my Previous Landlords Son, who died in October of 2006. My Previous Landlord then took over his Sons estate, collecting Rent from me with his own private Agent, but no futher contract was ever written up regarding my Tenancy. And as I have already mentioned, this new Landlord who bought the property on 22/02/08 hasn't written up any new Tenancy Agreement with me either.

What I'm afraid of most is putting my point across that the Notice served to me by my Previous Landlord is now null & void, due to either the fact the dates were wrong as mentioned by most of you, or that I paid up my Arrears in full to my Previous Landlord, which is why the Notice was served to me in the first place. The LL's LA I spoke to basically told me on no uncertain terms that the Notice served to me was legal, and that was that. So I really don't know where I stand in all of this, and I can't physically leave within 3 days time and find somewhere else to live.

Anyway, hope some of this information helps and thanks again to all of you.

blue_monkey_2

Hi WS,

You have never said whether you want to leave the property or go bac once it is renovated - if so then speak to the LA and see if that LL has somewhere else for you to go.

It looks as if your previous LL has been told to do this to claim his arrears and to show that you was leaving else he would have filed a section 8 notice, not the 21, but it looks like he has been quite snidey and has dropped you in it from a great height!! But, for now you do not have to leave, there is no tenancy agreement so the LL will have to get you out via the courts, that will give you at least 2 months to find someonewhere else. So stay put and tell LA that as you was not told that you had a new LL etc... and that old LL has dropped you in it then you are not going. I would have thought that even if this went to court and you disputed this then the judge might even find in your favour - especially if the new LL has bought them to rent out again. If they take your things from the property when you are at work or threaten you then call the police. End of. They are not allowed to, it is against the law.

You now have to try and find somewhere else - at the moment you don't have any dates for court etc.. so get moving now while you have a clean history and see if you can find somewhere else. I would agree that the LL is probably going to hike the rent up anyhow so look around now and don't worry about the 3 days - as I said before, tell them you are NOT leaving and if they do not want to wait until you find somewhere else then suggest they get you out via the courts. The LA could have been more helpful in trying to help you find somewhere else but clearly has not been very helpful at all so you have to wonder what is going on.

As I say, not something for you to worry about for today or tomorrow but start looking and tell the LA you are not leaving on said date.

I was wondering if someone else can answer this, the tenant if in arrears should have been served a Section 8a (I think) but was given the S21 (I guess for the reasons stated above and to help the old LL sell the property - tenants are leaving etc...). Does it make any different if the name of the current LL is different to that on the S21 when he files at the court or not if he has sold the property on. Just a thought really.

clutton_2

i would definitely NOT tell the current LA or LL WHY the section 21 is invalid - let them find out/sort it out for themselves and you will get more time that way - just tell them you have had legal advice and that it is not valid. Dont help them chuck you out !!!

Wintersun_3

Hi guys. I've been contacting a few organisations over the past couple of days, most notably Shelter and thought I'd keep you all updated, plus I have a few more questions I'd like to put out there.

I was sent a Letter yesterday by the LA I spoke to on Saturday, who has said that the Landlord has given me a week extra as a 'Gesture Of Good Will' (yeah right) bringing me upto Wednesday the12th March next week before I have to leave the property. Also the LL has said he will write off any Rent owed to him up till the 12th March. Which would be £210 up until that point.

After speaking with Shelter they have said that they don't believe the dates of my Eviction Notice to be correct. In that it should infact be the 26th March when I should leave my property, as it was the 27th May 2006 when I moved in, as I'm now on a 'Periodic Tenancy' due to the fact my original Tenancy Agreement ran out on the 27th Nov 2006 and I never signed another one since. Is this correct though? As I used to pay my LL every week, not every month, and this is what it says on my Tenancy Agreement. So would that still mean the date of 5th March, or 12th March is wrong? And that it should be Friday the 7th March if anything (based on weekly Rent payments.) And 14th March if they to add a week on as their wonderfully kind 'Gesture Of Good Will.'

I still don't personally see how they can get away with enforcing this Eviction Notice upon me. I paid my Previous Landlord IN FULL, he was the one who issed the Section 21 NOT them. When they took over I had NO Arrears whatsoever, before the new LL Bought the Property. Plus I had a verbal agreement with him, that if I did pay him in full I wouldn't be evicted. What annoys me the most is that I am fully capable of keeping upto date on my payments with my New LL, and I've never been any trouble at all since I'ved lived here. Yet he still wants rid of me because of this Eviction Notice issued to me in January, or because of the reason that he wants to 'vacate' the room for a refurbishment. Would I be able to argue this point in Court at all, and would they potentially look on me in favour? Also, in the letter the LA has said that the LL will take out an 'Accelerated Possession' through the Courts, yet I have read elsewhere they may not be able to do this as I don't have a current tenancy agreement with them, rather a periodic tenancy. Is this true at all?

Finally, if they are able to take out an 'Accelerated Posession' or if they have to through a standard Court Order, would I be liable for paying the Court Fee's? I don't know whether me currently being Unemployed and on Housing Benefit would change the answer to that or not.

I shall also be contacting Shelter locally tomorrow to see whether they can help out any further, as I was on the phone to them nationally earlier through their Helpline.

Anyway, thanks for reading this and I really do appreciate any advice any of you may have.

clutton_2

i am at the moment in the process of evicting a terrible tenant via an accelerated possession process. What the law says is that EVEN tho the court ruled she should move out yesterday, (and she has not) i still have to apply to the court for a Bailiffs Warrant to get her out. EVEN tho the court originally ruled in my favour (and granted me possession) she or her solicitor can STILL challenge the ruling when i submit an applicatoin for a Bailiffs warrant. This may mean another court session, i will have to appear, so will the tenant, and the judge will hear both sides before deciding whether to appointing Bailiffs to chuck her out or to grant her an extension of time.

So, you have lots of time - thats the point i was trying to make.

barnaby-bear

Wintersun wrote: »

I still don't personally see how they can get away with enforcing this Eviction Notice upon me. I paid my Previous Landlord IN FULL, he was the one who issed the Section 21 NOT them. When they took over I had NO Arrears whatsoever, before the new LL Bought the Property.

Your old landlord was fairly clued up - the state of arreers is irrelevent because it's a section 21 not a section 8. A section 21 is just the default 2 months AST notice every AST tenant has to suffer and is at the mercy of - the arreers have no bearing now.