Cca Requests Updates Please

bentalls

My 12 + 30 dys were up, so I sent off the letter asking for a resolution... I got a letter back saying they were passing it back to the Original Creditor! Good ole ARC... Yesterday, I sent off a letter to ARC stating they were collecting monies from me without authorisation, as they clearly do not have the correct documentation, and can I have my money back please? Gotta be worth a try! Though I am quite sure I won't get far on that. I do not have a problem paying this alleged debt - IF they can prove it is mine, and that they are legally entitled to collect it, which, so far, they have not. Apparently, the account is now in dispute... Which it should have been from the moment they first received my request for the CCA in January!

fermi

Hi Stapely

My understanding of it after a quick bit of looking around is that:

a) An application form can be a valid CCA if it embodies all the prescribed terms.

b) The stamp is perfectly valid as a substitute for a signature. Seems to be the consensus on other forums anyway.

c) Even if the stamp wasn't OK then Reg 3(2) of the "Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983" states that:

3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof.

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy--

(a) ............
(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

The Section 63(1) caveat in the above refers to the initial copies of the CCA when the agreement is made, so doesn't apply here.

d) An agreement with the creditors signature (or stamp) in their signature box is enforceable only through the court. That is not the same as an agreement being unenforceable.

However, if a agreement presented to the court does not contain your signature the court is not allowed to enforce it.

From: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft786a.pdf

6 SIGNATURE AND OTHER BOXES

6.1 What requirements apply to the signing of agreements?

Reg 6 contains requirements relating to the signing of documents embodying regulated agreements. They apply to all regulated agreements. References below to ‘credit agreements’ include consumer hire agreements where appropriate.

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that the document embodying the agreement must be signed in the prescribed manner by the debtor and by or on behalf of the creditor. If this is not done, the agreement is not properly executed and is enforceable against the debtor only with a court order.

If no document containing all the prescribed terms (see Q1.14) was signed by the debtor (whether or not in the prescribed manner), the court is precluded by s127(3) from making an enforcement order – see Q1.21.

Hope that helps. But that is just my take on it after a little bit of reading.

stapeley

yes thats clear as MUD ! right first thing the stamp is at the top of the form not in any box . I think the true answer will only come from a court . This is an APPLICATION FORM before the amendment to the act in 2006. Does not say approved it says" subject to credit check" One of the prescribed terms is the credit limit, this is not on the application form . This should be on an AGREEMENT signed my myself and the creditor , according to the CC ACT.

rayday2

You really want to take it as far as a court? If you are wrong they will not take kindly to their time being taken up and you know you applied so why are you dodging paying?

stapeley

Also (d) enforceable only through the courts.
If no document containing all the prescribed terms was signed by the debtor the court is precluded by s127(3) from making an enforcement order.

"YOUR HONOUR I DID NOT SIGN ANY FORM THAT CONTAINED ALL THE PRESCRIBED TERMS THAT ARE REQUIRED BY THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974. THE FORM I SIGNED WAS ONLY AN APPLICATION FORM THAT REFERRED TO A CREDIT CARD. THERE WAS NO CREDIT LIMIT SHOWN ANY WHERE ON THE FORM OR ANY PERCENTAGE RATE TO BE APPLIED. I DID NOT SIGN AN AGREEMENT FORM CONTAINING AND OF THESE REQUIRED PRESCRIBED TERMS " I REST MY CASE ! .

fermi

stapeley wrote: »

This is an APPLICATION FORM before the amendment to the act in 2006.

An application form can still be a CCA.

stapeley wrote: »

One of the prescribed terms is the credit limit, this is not on the application form.

The credit limit doesn't need to be expressed numerically for a "running-account credit agreement" which includes Credit cards, but instead can express "how the creditor will determine it". Not according to the OFT anyway.

8.5 What is meant by ‘credit limit’?

Sch 6 para 3 applies to running-account credit agreements. In such cases the agreement must include a term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined, or that there is no credit limit.

This is also required by Sch 1 para 8 – see Q3.10.

The credit limit may, by virtue of Sch 1 para 8, be expressed as a sum of money, or a statement that the credit limit will be determined by the creditor from time to time and notified to the debtor, or a sum of money together with a statement that the creditor may vary the credit limit from time to time and notify the debtor.

But if you can't post the agreement up, it's next to impossible to tell.

stapeley

rayday2 wrote: »

You really want to take it as far as a court? If you are wrong they will not take kindly to their time being taken up and you know you applied so why are you dodging paying?

Before i was aware of my rights i was threatened and harassed into making payment by a DCA that i could not afford ! They provided no proof of there ownership of the debt , at one stage an arrangement was made . This was broken by the transfer to another DCA, who badgered me night and day !
The OC,s sell these accounts on to these sharks at 15p to 20 p on the pound . If I was offered the same deal I would not be in this position !
I reserve the right to take what ever action I choose !

fermi

We seem to be getting somewhere (very slowly).

What if anything does the agreement/application state regarding interest rates?

stapeley

HI Fermi , I value your help and balanced view . It is truely complex . I really have no other option but to let it run its course ! There is alway bankrupcy .

fermi

stapeley wrote: »

HI Fermi , I value your help and balanced view . It is truely complex . I really have no other option but to let it run its course ! There is alway bankrupcy .

I appreciate that. I'm not arguing with you to try and disprove you or anything like that.

Instead, I don't want you to get a nasty shock if it gets to court.

And you are right, it is horribly complicated. Especially since each piece of legislation has been modified over time by new bills and "Statutory Instruments". That means that you can't even read the original legislation and take it at face value, because you also need to check that those provisions weren't modified by later legislation.

There are still many many arguments over the application of the rules/legislation on CAG, and they have looked into it in greater depth and for a longer time than anyone here has.