Cca Requests Updates Please

Weekend_warrior

Hi Bazza66,

Your right I'm an idiot, the heat up here must be affecting my brain.
I have ammended the posting and will leave the advise to more capable
people in future.

W.W.
ps. could you look at my posting 3372 and offer advise please, thanks.

Bazza66

Weekend_warrior wrote: »

Hi All,

I need some more advise!
Today I received a letter from Aktiv Krapital saying :-
You have disputed the account and requested supporting documentation in respect of the balance.
To this end we have enclosed the copy statements.
( The copy statements are computer print outs of my disputed account payments and letter charges once I defaulted, they also show my last payment to this account was in March 2001)
In Dec 2008 I requested a copy of my signed cca, I received a letter in Jan 2009 saying that due to the age of the account no copy of the original agreement is retrievable in this matter, so I sent them a 12+2 day letter and stopped my token payments which started in Jan 2008.
The only letters I received off them since my 12+2 day letter dated Feb 2009, were offer letters saying they will give me 40 and 50% discounts to settle but unfortunately no cca
I only acknowledged this account in Jan 2008 when a debt advisor (wrongly)arranged token payments, as you can see Aktiv Krapital look as if they have now given me the evidence that the account is indeed also statute barred as well as they have still not furnished a true cca
Your advise on what to do now please.

W.W.

Just to bump this one back up.

Am I right in saying you requested a CCA and then they didnt produce the goods so you sent them the 12+2 days one.

You have had nothing from them (apart from the odd discount letter - which you can report them for since they are not allowed to request any monies from you while the account is in default) but now you have been sent the paperwork which you describe above (i.e. statements etc).

As for statute barred - I am afraid it doesnt look to be since you say you made a payment Jan 08. Statued barred means no payment/acknowledgement of the debt for 6 years.

In a nutshell they have still failed to produce a valid CCA so the account is still in default. You could

a) report them - you may need to go down a formal complaint route first - someone can verify that
b) send them the "not valid cca" letter - template letter can be found somewhere in this thread - letter states CCA must contain this and that and what they have sent is not - will try and find it in a mo.
c) ignore them

Hope this helps.

PS I know what you mean about the heat _pale_

stapeley

Now had MD of company offering alsorts of deals . Funny that ! What they are not offering is a true signed of a CC AGREEMENT !

Bazza66

Bazza66 wrote: »

)

b) send them the "not valid cca" letter - template letter can be found somewhere in this thread - letter states CCA must contain this and that and what they have sent is not - will try and find it in a mo.

Modify this one to suit your requirements.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=9323533

But it has been suggested one here that everytime you write you are resetting the statued-barred clock. Not sure how accurate that is since the letter should state "I do not acknowledge any debt to xyz".

sandalwood_2

Bazza66 wrote: »

Not quite right WW. After 12+2 working days since posting the initial CCA request (I always go with 12+1 from the date they signed for it) then you can send them the 12+2 days letter (account in default).

The 12+2+30 days letter is no longer required.

However in saying this I am trying a little experiment after a conversation with Rog2 ages ago. I sent a CCA request to Hillesdon (dlc) and they have kindly written back to say they are looking for the CCA blah blah blah and will contact me in 21 days (or before if they come up with something). That was before the 12+2 days which lasped a couple of weeks ago. I have not followed up with a 12+2 days letter since (because of conversation with Rog2) they know the law and should know legally the account is in default and it's not my job to remind them.

I have had another letter from them saying "they are still trying to locate CCA and will respond in 21 days" - so they keep extending the 21 days for themselves.

I may eventually send them the 12+2 days letter but for know I will leave it for a while to see what happens.

Hi Bazza
thank you for the reply,sorry,but I am still a little confused I have seen a couple of 12 + 2 letters on here,can you please have a look at the below and let me know if this is the correct one to send,sorry to be a pain,but still unsure on the CCA route
thank you

FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

Date:

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired.

As you are no doubt aware sections 77/78 state:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

Weekend_warrior

Bazza66 wrote: »

Just to bump this one back up.

Am I right in saying you requested a CCA and then they didnt produce the goods so you sent them the 12+2 days one.

You have had nothing from them (apart from the odd discount letter - which you can report them for since they are not allowed to request any monies from you while the account is in default) but now you have been sent the paperwork which you describe above (i.e. statements etc).

As for statute barred - I am afraid it doesnt look to be since you say you made a payment Jan 08. Statued barred means no payment/acknowledgement of the debt for 6 years.

In a nutshell they have still failed to produce a valid CCA so the account is still in default. You could

a) report them - you may need to go down a formal complaint route first - someone can verify that
b) send them the "not valid cca" letter - template letter can be found somewhere in this thread - letter states CCA must contain this and that and what they have sent is not - will try and find it in a mo.
c) ignore them

Hope this helps.

PS I know what you mean about the heat _pale_

Hi Bazza,

The dca sent me a letter saying that no cca could be found due to the age of the debt.
I was wondering about statute barred as my last payment or acknowledgement was early 2001 and I didnt respond or pay anything till early 2008 a gap of 7 years ( In Scotland were I live I was told it was statute barred after 5 years) and once statute barred always statute barred even if I had started paying in 2008.
I would like to be 100% sure if this is true because people are divided on this one.

W.W.

Bazza66

jaybag,

Looks fine to me. The one I use is which is a little shorter is below. Ignore dates - it the last time I had to send one.

You dont really need to point out the law to them - they should know it so it's a bit of a waste to tell them what they already know.The choice is yours - I used to send the 12+2 letter just for completeness on my paper trial should it go to court (but trying experiment - see previous post - with Hillesdon).


18 August 2008

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery on 30 July 2008 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a £1 postal order as the fee payable. This letter was delivered and signed for on 31 July 2008.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on 15 August 2008.

I have still neither received a copy of the agreement as required by S78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any other information relating to same. As such, this account has become unenforceable by law. As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

As such, now that the 12 working days have expired (from your receipt of the request for the agreement and supporting documents) the account is now in dispute. Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (15 August 2008)


Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 1998)

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

Yours faithfully,

Bazza66

Weekend_warrior wrote: »

Hi Bazza,

The dca sent me a letter saying that no cca could be found due to the age of the debt.
I was wondering about statute barred as my last payment or acknowledgement was early 2001 and I didnt respond or pay anything till early 2008 a gap of 7 years ( In Scotland were I live I was told it was statute barred after 5 years) and once statute barred always statute barred even if I had started paying in 2008.
I would like to be 100% sure if this is true because people are divided on this one.

W.W.

Hi WW,

Didnt realise you last made a payment in 2001 and then nothing until 2008 which would, like you say, make it statute barred.

I must confess I am not overly familiar with statute barred but will look into it whether it remain even if you have paid after the 5 years.

sandalwood_2

Bazza66 wrote: »

jaybag,

Looks fine to me. The one I use is which is a little shorter is below. Ignore dates - it the last time I had to send one.

You dont really need to point out the law to them - they should know it so it's a bit of a waste to tell them what they already know.The choice is yours - I used to send the 12+2 letter just for completeness on my paper trial should it go to court (but trying experiment - see previous post - with Hillesdon).


18 August 2008

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

I wrote to you by Recorded Delivery on 30 July 2008 asking for a copy of the above agreement together with the relevant information under Section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enclosing a £1 postal order as the fee payable. This letter was delivered and signed for on 31 July 2008.

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enters into a default situation. This occurred on 15 August 2008.

I have still neither received a copy of the agreement as required by S78 Consumer Credit Act 1974, nor any other information relating to same. As such, this account has become unenforceable by law. As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

As such, now that the 12 working days have expired (from your receipt of the request for the agreement and supporting documents) the account is now in dispute. Whilst it remains in dispute the agreement is unenforceable.

Whilst it is unenforceable, no interest is to be added to the account. No action can be taken against me. No adverse credit references or defaults can be listed against me with Credit Reference Agencies. The account cannot be passed to a Debt Collection Agency. And lastly, I am not obliged to make any further payments to the account. Essentially, the account is ‘held’ as it was on the date of the CCA request expiring (15 August 2008)


Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 1998)

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

I also require that you remove all my data from your files within the next 7 days and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 10 days confirming that you have complied with this request.

Yours faithfully,

Thanks a lot bazza,really helped me out there,just one more thing,do I tell the DMP company I am with not to pay them at the moment or carry on? sorry for more questions

Bazza66

Bazza66 wrote: »

Hi WW,

Didnt realise you last made a payment in 2001 and then nothing until 2008 which would, like you say, make it statute barred.

I must confess I am not overly familiar with statute barred but will look into it whether it remain even if you have paid after the 5 years.

I'm at work at the moment so not got much time looking into this but my initial findings are that you have reset the clock by making the payment. Dont take this as gospel since this is my initial thoughts.

Interesting question and I shall research more later.