Cca Requests Updates Please

Bazza66

GirlRacer wrote: »

Hi guys, decided to chase Next Directory for a copy of my sisters CCA and have today received a reply. The letter encloses a copy of a consumer credit act but it does not have my sisters name, account number or signature on it. The letter staes that they are satisfied this meets with their obligations under section 78 of the CCA. It states that the interpretation as to 'copy' requires reference to section 189 (for the definition of copy) and secondly to section 180 relating to the consumer credit (calcellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983. Looking at section 3(1) of the regulations it is clear that '....every copy of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy thereof...' section 3(2) confirms that a 'true copy' need not include the items listed as sub section (a) to (d) as applicable. The letter goes on to state - These 2 sections confirm that Ii) non-statutory information included for the creditors own benefit and (ii) signature boxes need not be included in the true copy. Based on this analysis it is accepted as a matter of good law that a 'copy' for the purposes of section 78 need not be an exact copy or photocopy as long as the true copy provided contains every material provision of the agreement signed.

Can anybody tell me what this means please ?????

Girlracer,

Sounds like they are trying to baffle you with legistlation and make you think you are in the wrong.

At the end of the day a CCA must be a TRUE SIGNED(!!!!) COPY. By the sounds of it this one isnt. Does it include any of the other prescribed terms? E.g. Interest rate, period, etc. And by not having her name on it... well thats just a laugh! I'm sure a court would say that could be anyones!

Have a look at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...html?p=9323533 for further help and next letter to send.

Bazza

GirlRacer_2

Thanks for that Bazza, all they've sent her is a standard copy of a credit agreement. It's obviously a photocopy it's A5 size and there's 2 on a sheet of A4, it just looks like a standard information sheet. Theres no signature on there only a photocopied one on behalf of Next Directory but nothing with my sisters name, address, account number or signature on. There is no interest rate stated it just tells us about key information about the account. Me thinks we are going to hav to proceed to the second letter.

Bazza66

GirlRacer wrote: »

It states that the interpretation as to 'copy' requires reference to section 189 (for the definition of copy).................

Have a look at this from Fermi (who I understand is a whizz on here but I have not had the pleasure to talk to).

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=14596589&postcount=1032

Bazza

GirlRacer_2

Thanks for that Bazza, I've just done another letter to them and stated that they have failed to produce the agreement. Going to pop it in the post this afternoon so fingers crossed for us.

Bazza66

GirlRacer wrote: »

..............The letter goes on to state - These 2 sections confirm that Ii) non-statutory information included for the creditors own benefit and (ii) signature boxes need not be included in the true copy..............

Just reread it and checked it against the regulations althought I could be wrong.

According to the regs a copy does not have to contain a "SIGNATURE BOX" which is completely different to a "SIGNATURE"!!!! Clever wording!!!!

Full regs are

Reg 3(1) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations requires that, subject to certain limited exceptions, any copy of an unexecuted agreement must be a ‘true copy’. This means that it must be identical to the agreement as presented or sent to the debtor for signature.

Reg 3(2) permits the exclusion from the copy agreement of:
• any information relating to the debtor, or included for the creditor’s use, which is not required by the Agreements Regulations;

• the name and address of the debtor; and

• any signature box.

Bazza

Bazza66

GirlRacer wrote: »

Thanks for that Bazza, I've just done another letter to them and stated that they have failed to produce the agreement. Going to pop it in the post this afternoon so fingers crossed for us.

I would hand on for a bit and get someone elses opinion as well. This is only my opinion (interpretation) of your letter. Others are more qualified than me.

GirlRacer_2

OK will hold on a moment until I get feedback from somebody else. Thanks

fermi

They are only allowed to omit the name and address of the debtor on a copy of any unexecuted agreement.

However, a s77/78 request demands a true copy of the executed agreement.

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument
or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act
shall be a true copy thereof.

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor,
hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the
Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed
agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an
agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

(c) in the case of any copy of an unexecuted agreement delivered or sent to the debtor or hirer under section 62 of
the Act, the name and address of the debtor or hirer; and

[(d) in the case of any copy of an executed agreement given to the debtor under section 77(1) of the Act for fixed-
sum credit, or under section 78(1) for running-account credit, under which a person takes any articles in pawn, any
description of the article taken in pawn.]

fermi

GirlRacer wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what this means please ?????

It means (probably) that they can't locate a genuine copy of a real agreement, and they are hoping that they can fool you into thinking that this is OK. :rolleyes:

Bazza66

fermi wrote: »

They are only allowed to omit the name and address of the debtor on a copy of any unexecuted agreement.

However, a s77/78 request demands a true copy of the executed agreement.

Thats different to the ones I found Fermi.

I looked at

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/consumer_credit/oft786a.pdf