Cavity Wall Ties - likely cost

courtenay62

Hi,
Following advice from a Homebuyer's report my daughter commissioned a local wall tie specialist firm to carry out a survey on her large 1930s Leeds brick built property. The survey report included 2 basically indecipherable photos of 2 fishtail wall ties saying they were at "an advanced stage of corrosion with heavy rusting and some lamination of the visible steel", and consequently recommended "full wall tie replacement".

But, the report also said in a 'Discussion' paragraph that "there is no evidence of any external cracking", and as an alternative to undertaking the work immediately she could consider "regular monitoring of the condition of the ties and of the external brickwork", with a view to doing the wall tie replacement later.

Because of the very substantial cost involved, over £12k, my daughter is very unsure what she should do. Being by nature suspicious I do wonder exactly how bad the wall tie problem really is. I've read houses built in the 1930s and later are at risk, but if this corrosion was endemic wouldn't there be tens or hundreds of thousands of houses affected and potentially at risk of structural failure? I'm not aware of this being a huge issue throughout the UK.
The report says the 2 ties inspected were heavily corroded but on the other hand there is no wall cracking. The house is not near the sea, and is 3 mtres separated from the adjacent properties. And my daughter wonders what "regular monitoring" means; getting the specialist company back every year, 5 years, etc, or watching to see if any cracks develop?
It all seems very vague, and of course the specialist would find it hard to give unbiased advice.
I'd appreciate any comments on the above.
Thanks.

kingstreet

It's like everything else which can be wrong with a property, but is difficult to see. It's much better to pay an independent surveyor to assess the condition of something than it is to get in a contractor who actually carries out such work.

Timber, damp, wall-ties, structure. All should be investigated by independent professionals, not the ones who benefit from doing such work. It may mean paying for a report, but that may save thousands in the long-run.

kingstreet

Many of the firms listed here;-

http://www.independentdampsurveyors.co.uk/

will also cover wall-tie issues

teneighty

As others have suggested an independent second opinion sounds like a good idea.

However if they are fishtail ties and there is no sign of horizontal cracking externally then I suspect they will last a good few years yet.

the_root_of_all_evil

kingstreet wrote: »

Many of the firms listed here;-

http://www.independentdampsurveyors.co.uk/

will also cover wall-tie issues

I would just like to thank this post, its just saved me £2593!!!

after a surveyor flagged up possible wall tie failure I instructed a contractor "British waterproofing / Ivan Maxwell" to come and check it out.

this guy performed a free survey with a boroscope, and said that the hole house needed doing.

unfortunately for him I'm no noob in this area, when he picked a point at random and drilled an inspection hole I new something was a miss from what I'd read on these forums.

he should have used a metal detector first to find the ties, inserting a boroscope into a cavity wall that happened to be filled with cavity wall insulation I new he couldn't see a thing down that scope perhaps that's why he would not let me look down the scope myself?

then into the loft to check my possible woodworm ( only one beam was effected) he stood on his ladder and said yes there's the little blotters!, hang on the affected beam is on completely the other side of the loft!

upon leaving I had a very bad feeling as to what had just taken place so the next day I decided I needed a non partial second opinion so I instructed an independent surveyor who does not do any work that might need doing, I got the contact from the link above.

http://www.jhreesindependentsurveys.co.uk/

this guy was a completely different kettle of fish, smart articulate and carrying all the correct tools.

after it was confirmed a boroscope was no good due to wall insulation he used a metal detector to find some 20+ wall ties at various points around the house.

I ok'ed the removal of bricks, after a little struggle the bricks came out to reveal the location of the wall ties as the metal detector had confirmed the position.

the wall ties were completely uncoroded and looked as if the day they were fitted some 65 years ago! I was allowed up the ladder to inspect for myself, I was a very happy bunny at this point.

so, into the loft, and I mean into the loft physically were I showed him the beam in question although he checked the whole loft.

to my delight it wasn't even woodworm but some other form of beetle that cant survive in wood with a moisture content below a certain level, these levels were confirmed by digging a device into he wood which displayed moisture content. I was told the effected beam would have had this beetle in at the time of fitting 65 years ago and was completely dead.

I could have kissed him there and then, I didn't let on he had just saved me a small fortune not to mention I can now sell my house with the all clear!!

thanks to George at jhreese and to moneysaving expert for the link!!!!! over the moon!!

woodowrm and wall tie - contractor quote £2593:mad:

woodowrm and wall tie - independant survey £175 inc vat:T

you do the math! :j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j:j

GDB2222

Result! Well done.

GMAD

Just had valuation back from the lender re property purchase. It says they require a cavity wall tie report in order to proceed. Also states there is structural movement to the rear elevation in the form of stepped cracking but isn't long standing nor progressive. I assume the latter can be caused by the former but could also be something more severe, eg foundations etc?

Spoke to a local Federation approved specialist who said £200 for a callout and probably £3000 for 3 days work in replacing all the ties (in a 1940s 3 bed semi). We're in Surrey for the record.

Looking back at the posts above this sounds pretty excessive, especially if the labour equates to over £2500 of that!

Will be seeking other opinions naturally.

Also, the vendors had their cavities filled a couple of years ago, so surely they would have been made aware of any issues? Maybe so and maybe they didn't want to pay as they knew they'd be moving?

Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers

the_cheeky_chappy

chappers wrote: »

This is something that has cropped up in recent years and most times is just scaremongering however there have been problems with incorrect fitting of wall ties. most of the time everything will be fine.
Whilst I have no real idea,from experience, as to how much it might cost to replace wall ties, as a builder I would see the process involving removing removing blocks/bricks from both skins of a wall and inserting new ties. Can't see it being a cheap process

People who know little or nothing about a subject should button up!
IN ALL CASES OF WALL TIE REPLACEMENTS:

The old wall tie are found by metal detector: The ends are exposed and encapsulated in a suitable rust inhibitor. Depending on the size of brick/block and cavity size, pilot holes are drilled and ties are inserted in the brick or block. Never in a joint! The main reason wall ties fail is due to mortar failure around original ties. The ties are usually formed in a diamond pattern at 450mm centres. They are more concentrated around reveals.

societys_child

Hello cheeky chappy, did you really join up to quote a post made over 5yrs ago?;)

SailorSam

Forgive me if i'm wrong but i was expecting cheeky chappy to leave the name and number of his building company.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpCoyHdI2xg