Phorm and a request for an alternative HTTP port

Alfie_E

In light of BT, TalkTalk and Virgin Media signing up to let Phorm monitor and profile all their customers’ web use, would MSE consider using an extra, alternative, arbitrary port for the forum website. So, as well as

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/

there’d also be something like

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com:91/

I’m working on the assumption that the Phorm system will only monitor traffic on the standard HTTP port of 80. The ideal solution would be to provide a secure web server as an alternative. However, I appreciate that that would involve significant extra cost in the form of a security certificate and the possible need for more powerful or specialist hardware to support the same number of concurrent users.

People turn to the MSE forum with a wide range of problems, including debt and depression. They assume that their Internet access is mostly anonymous. The idea of Phorm sifting through their latest forum post submission could be enough to make people hesitate and not seek help.

For more details on the grand Phorm and Open Internet eXchange plan, see the following.

ISP data deal with former ‘spyware’ boss triggers privacy fears – The Register
Virgin Media, BT and TalkTalk Spying – MSE Forum thread

Alfie_E

Charles Arthur for the Guardian has produced what I believe to be the first detailed mainstream article on Phorm – Phorm fires privacy row for ISPs. It gives weight to my initial belief that only traffic on port 80 will be scanned.

It will have equipment at ISPs that will track your activities on port 80 (used for the web) - though not to secure websites.

There is compelling evidence that BT have already trialled the system. BT have stated that they intend to start a large scale trial imminently. Can the MSE forum be made additionally available on a different port or via an encrypted connection (port 443 by default) as soon as possible.

VelvetGlove

This just worried me so I had a chat to my boyfriend & although there is nothing there at the moment for this - they are talking about an 'opt out' for those who don't want to be tracked.

I'm really hoping that is going to come about as I don't like the idea of people knowing the sites I goto & what I do there!

BritBrat

You may only be opting out of receiving the adds and NOT the collection of your data.

BritBrat

Martin, or any employee of Martin S Lewis Ltd, do you give a stuff

I think they will do soon if they get any revenue from referal links.

Because I think the use of phorm may divert the referal to that of BT, TalkTalk and Virgin and those would get the money and not any other referal/user site.

But I must admit I am not an expert on this but I can see how easy it would be if the ISP was diverting all traffic through it's own referal links.

I did read that Phorm have been signing up to a lot of referal sites and that was what gave me the idea.

I would also like to request that this site goes https.

Alfie_E

BritBrat wrote: »

I think they will do soon if they get any revenue from referal links.

This may be only the start of the problem. Is 2012 the year MoneySavingExpert.com ends?

Alfie_E

As I haven’t been told why my original post was deleted by the Forum Team, I can only guess at what amendments are required in this reposting. If there still remains any problem, Forum Team, please tell me.

Martin, or any employee of Martin S Lewis Ltd, do you care about the privacy of the people accessing the MoneySavingExpert.com website and its associated forum? Would you mind BT handing over to Phorm the web browsing details of any BT customer accessing your website or forum? Phorm’s system called WebWise could, for example, conclude, “This person looking at all the debt-related material on MSE must be in financial distress. When they visit other websites, let’s show them lots of adverts for cripplingly expensive debt consolidation products.”

I know the general position is that, if something saves money, how much a person sacrifices their privacy is almost irrelevant, but here we’re talking about no gain for the people who use your website. Big business will be taking, but giving nothing back.

Could Martin S Lewis Ltd at least contact Phorm and ask them their position regarding the MSE website and forum? Unlike the previous, secret trials that BT conducted, the latest, upcoming trial will include a more realistic attempt at avoiding some of BT customers’ more sensitive web browsing, as Phorm build up advertising profiles on those people. Phorm have stated they will avoid a website at the owner’s request. Although, depending on how this is implemented, there may be no way to externally validate that Phorm have acted on any request. This is an urgent matter. The latest news is that BT plan to press ahead with this new trial later this week (paragraph twelve onwards).

The gory details of the 2006 covert trial can be found in BT’s PageSense External Technical Validation report. You can find a link to this document in ZDNet’s article entitled EC probes BT-Phorm trials. For reference: PageSense was the predecessor of WebWise. Phorm was created as a new company, with 121Media being subsumed within it.

MSE_Martin

Hi

Thanks for the note and we will look at it.

Yet this is not very high up on our agenda, we have many more issues going on Im afraid, so don't hold your breath. My key technical aim is to make the site better and keep it working and fast

It seems to me that if some ISPs are using such tracking software then the best thing to do is move ISP.

Martin