Hargreaves Lansdown or Fidelity SIPP?

chris1

What are your views on the pros & cons of HL versus Fidelity's SIPP?

If I've understood correctly here are my initial findings:

I'm referring to funds only to avoid annual charges.

Annual charge for SIPP: HL none, Fidelity none if open before late April.
Initial charge for funds: HL usually zero but not always, Fid zero
Ongoing charges: HL charge for some funds (e.g. Fidelity's low cost Moneybuilder type funds)
Switching fee: Fidelity zero, couldn't find out from HL site.
End charges: HL some, Fidelity say verbally there aren't any (hmmmm) but couldn't find written anywhere.

What bothers me about the Fidlity literature, the letter says no charges but the Key Features/Ts&Cs which you actually sign up to clearly state you will be charged(?)

Before my head explodes I'd appreciate others' opinions / views / experiences...

Thanks

dunstonh

What are your views on the pros & cons of HL versus Fidelity's SIPP?

First thing I would say is why SIPP and why those two?

chris1

dunstonh wrote: »

First thing I would say is why SIPP and why those two?

SIPP for tax reasons, & these two seemed the best of the bunch (?)

dunstonh

There is no tax advantage of a SIPP compared to other pension arrangements. Indeed, a personal pension has ever so slightly better tax terms than a SIPP. Personal pensions can reclaim more withholding taxes than a SIPP.

chris1

dunstonh wrote: »

There is no tax advantage of a SIPP compared to other pension arrangements. Indeed, a personal pension has ever so slightly better tax terms than a SIPP. Personal pensions can reclaim more withholding taxes than a SIPP.

By 'for tax reasons' I meant rather than holding the funds directly.

As to 'personal pensions', my experience has been of high charges, abysmal performance, obfuscation of 'with profits' and seemingly no accountability. At least the UT/OIEC funds which can be put in a SIPP seem to be more in public attention, monitored, performance-measured, researched, and some effort made to do well. Plus the theory is you can make some attempt to choose the better performing managers from different companies...

dunstonh

As to 'personal pensions', my experience has been of high charges, abysmal performance, obfuscation of 'with profits' and seemingly no accountability.

Your experience is obsolete and limited to legacy products then. Modern personal pensions have lower charges than SIPPs, have access to the same funds and publish data to all the main data suppliers.

At least the UT/OIEC funds which can be put in a SIPP seem to be more in public attention, monitored, performance-measured, researched, and some effort made to do well.

You can put UT/OEICS, SICAVs and even shares and investment trusts in some personal pensions and cheaper than some SIPPs (including the two you have mentioned).

Plus the theory is you can make some attempt to choose the better performing managers from different companies

Which has nothing to do with personal pension or SIPP as you can do the same on both.

I suggest you revise your research as your views on personal pensions are obsolete and if you think you are going into a SIPP to get lower charges then you are very wrong.

chris1

dunstonh wrote: »

You can put UT/OEICS, SICAVs and even shares and investment trusts in some personal pensions and cheaper than some SIPPs (including the two you have mentioned).

Please give some examples then!

meester

chris1 wrote: »

Please give some examples then!

I think if you can find an IFA to do execution-only and rebate the trail commission via Selestia it can work out cheaper for certain funds with large fund values. But that's reliant on finding the IFA, ensuring that he's willing, not getting sold something else instead, and then being tied into a company that prefers to deal via salesmen than direct with individuals.

If you prefer to manage your own portfolio I don't see that a personal pension is a particularly compelling option compared with a HL Sipp and possibly a second SIPP for ETFs/ITs/shares as well (which you won't get with the pension company).

dunstonh

Please give some examples then!

I'm afraid I cannot do that. I know nothing about your situation and If I make recommendations it would put me and the board at the risk of breaching FSA rules. However, meester has mentioned one provider that can beat HL with the right IFA setting it up initially and you taking it over (mainly due to rebate in fund based trail. There are a couple of others depending on your fund value. The ones you have mentioned are fine but remember the charges are going to be more than a typical personal pension when buying on the same distribution channel. If you intend to utilise a wide range of funds which are not available on the typical personal pension then then using a fund supermarket or SIPP is money well spent. If you are only going to use the mainstream "known" funds then you should find the PPP comes in cheaper.

chris1

dunstonh wrote: »

I'm afraid I cannot do that. I know nothing about your situation and If I make recommendations it would put me and the board at the risk of breaching FSA rules.

Did I ask you to make recommendations? No! You said you could put UT/OIECS & shares in "some personal pensions and cheaper than some SIPPs" but didn't substantiate your statement. I simply asked for examples to indicate that your claim was correct and so that I could "revise my research" as you put it.

dunstonh wrote: »

There are a couple of others depending on your fund value....the charges are going to be more than a typical personal pension ... wide range of funds which are not available on the typical personal pension ... the mainstream "known" funds...

Care to elaborate?

chris1

meester wrote: »

I think if you can
find an IFA to do execution-only
and rebate the trail commission via Selestia it can work out cheaper for certain funds with large fund values. But that's reliant on
finding the IFA,
ensuring that he's willing,
not getting sold something else instead,
and then being tied into a company that prefers to deal via salesmen than direct with individuals.

That's quite a few reasons not to!

meester wrote: »

If you prefer to manage your own portfolio I don't see that a personal pension is a particularly compelling option compared with a HL Sipp and possibly a second SIPP for ETFs/ITs/shares as well (which you won't get with the pension company).

Thanks, I was beginning to feel it was just me... at the risk of being shot down (no recommendations, blah, blah), which ones would a person look at as the 'second SIPP for ETFs etc'?
Thanks