Gas central heating on constant or timer?

prosaver

diamondirish wrote: »

I have been running this experiment for more than 10 years now, in 3 different homes!

The proof is this simple - I have Gas bills at least 30% lower than anyone else I know in a similar property, and 70% lower than some.

I leave the central controls to 'on' for heating (not water) 24/7. I work at home, and my wife is a homemaker - the property is occupied most of the time, most days (and we still have much lower gas bills than families who are all out of their homes monday through friday from 8am until 6pm!!!)

The Thermostat downstairs is set to 19 or 20 degrees - upstairs never above 15 degrees. When we pop out, and when we go to bed, downstairs stat is also set to 15. (edit: Must say at this stage, on the boiler, both the water and radiator temperatiures are set right at the lowest end of the 'recommended' settings)

In the depths of winter (last year we had -19degrees, yes minus ninteen) the downstairs stat was set to 22 and upstairs still at 15.

When we go away for a number of days, all stats are set at 10-12 to stop the house becoming too cold to reheat (and keeping the cats from turning to ice).

As for Hot water, I have always used a timer - 20 minutes in the morning before we rise, and a ten minute boost around dinner time. We rarely (once every 2-3 months on the occassion when everyone wants a shower / bath at the same time) run out of hot water, and if we do I use the GCH boost - NEVER the immersion heater.

So, you can continue to use your laws of physics and gas company marketing jingo-jango - but using your termostats to manage your enery use is much more effective and efficient than letting the temperature yo-yo by 10-12 degres (at least ) 2 or 3 times a day.

:T:T:T
I agree I found out if i turn the rads off upstairs for a few hours in the day it helps, also we turn them back on about 4 ish (no thermostate on rads) . Then at night turn it all off at 830. the house stays warm throughout the night and turn it back on in the morn.

DVardysShadow

diamondirish wrote: »

So, you can continue to use your laws of physics and gas company marketing jingo-jango - but using your termostats to manage your enery use is much more effective and efficient than letting the temperature yo-yo by 10-12 degres (at least ) 2 or 3 times a day.

Don't try walking off any tall buildings. The laws of physics will get you in the end.

diamondirish wrote: »

The proof is this simple - I have Gas bills at least 30% lower than anyone else I know in a similar property, and 70% lower than some.

That is not proof. To prove it, you need to conduct an experiment on your property.

The thread is 4 years old by the way.

HappyMJ

diamondirish wrote: »

I have been running this experiment for more than 10 years now, in 3 different homes!

The proof is this simple - I have Gas bills at least 30% lower than anyone else I know in a similar property, and 70% lower than some.

I leave the central controls to 'on' for heating (not water) 24/7. I work at home, and my wife is a homemaker - the property is occupied most of the time, most days (and we still have much lower gas bills than families who are all out of their homes monday through friday from 8am until 6pm!!!)

The Thermostat downstairs is set to 19 or 20 degrees - upstairs never above 15 degrees. When we pop out, and when we go to bed, downstairs stat is also set to 15. (edit: Must say at this stage, on the boiler, both the water and radiator temperatiures are set right at the lowest end of the 'recommended' settings)

In the depths of winter (last year we had -19degrees, yes minus ninteen) the downstairs stat was set to 22 and upstairs still at 15.

When we go away for a number of days, all stats are set at 10-12 to stop the house becoming too cold to reheat (and keeping the cats from turning to ice).

As for Hot water, I have always used a timer - 20 minutes in the morning before we rise, and a ten minute boost around dinner time. We rarely (once every 2-3 months on the occassion when everyone wants a shower / bath at the same time) run out of hot water, and if we do I use the GCH boost - NEVER the immersion heater.

So, you can continue to use your laws of physics and gas company marketing jingo-jango - but using your termostats to manage your enery use is much more effective and efficient than letting the temperature yo-yo by 10-12 degres (at least ) 2 or 3 times a day.

What you are doing is basically a tweaked timed method anyway. The temperature in my house does not yo-yo by 10-12 degrees 2-3 times a day. It's well insulated enough to only fall by a maximum of 1 degree per hour if it's 21 inside and 0 outside. When the inside temperature gets to about 10-12 as you have set your thermostat to the heat loss is so low the central heating rarely comes on. I usually wake up to inside temperatures of 12 degrees and heat the room to 18 degrees before getting out of bed. That's only a 6 degree swing. When I come home in the evening the solar gain from the sun during the day has prevented a lot of heat loss and the room temperature is usually about 15 degrees which is only a 3 degree difference to get it back to 18.

neilrlsmith

This thread is very old so really hope this comment gets picked up!

I have no answer either way to whether it's timer or constant so could do with some help. The added dimension I have here is several underfloor heating areas and our bills, believe me, are HUGE. We live in a 1940s 2800sq ft detached house over 3 floors (loft conversion) which I suspect is averagely but not perfectly insulated.

We have a megaflow system with 3 zones. Zone 1 is all downstairs radiators. Zone 2 is all 1st and 2nd floor radiators and zone 3 is hot water. On top of that we have 3 bathrooms with electric underfloor heating each with an independant timer. Our kitchen (at least 12m by 5m in size) is gas underfloor heating but has its own timer/thermostat.

I have lots of questions but trying to keep this relatively short and simple. Everything on all the time = £350 per month (perhaps I should get used to high bills with a house like this). Also bear in mind the UK has been barely getting above 1 degrees for several weeks.

Heating on timer £370 per month!

So I think my kitchen underfloor heating needs to be on all the time as to heat all the suspended concrete floor and tiles up twice a day and get it 22 is taking up huge amounts of energy (in my humble opinion).

BUT - the problem is that zone 1 (downstairs radiators) doesnt really warm up the house nicely. The air seems cold and the thermostat (timed to come on from 5am until 8am and 3:30pm until 8pm) never really gets up to 19 degree even though its set to 23. Perhaps I am losing heat somewhere or perhaps with my set up I need to look at a different method or install a digital thermostat to set a minimum level?

Upstairs is not much better with the temperature low but the thermostat up to 22.

H/W on all the time. Perhaps I should tweak that?

Electric underfloor heating I've changed to on constantly at 19 but that doesnt seem to heat the floor up at all so need to look at that again!

Basically, 2800 detached house, both working from home with 2 young kids so lots of dish and clothes washing being done!

Gosh that's a lot of questions....sorry

terry2

We have this continuing arguement once again.

The real answer is that it ALL DEPENDS ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF YOUR PROPERTY.

If you have a house of a standard brick contruction with insulated walls and a properly insulated loft - then keeping the heating on all the time will normally be cheaper; on the otherhand if you have lots of glass, or uninsulated walls or loft, then timed would be cheaper (but get some insulation).

We see lots of amateur physicists quoting beliefs based on oversimplistic models, who refuse to believe the results of actual measurements (and real physicists know that results always trump theories).

In my case, having the heating on all the time (with the house (hall) thermostat set at 20C) uses 10% more energy than timed (3 hrs morning, 8 hours evening also at 20C). However if I drop the thermostat to 19C then the energy consumption goes back to the same amount as the timed setting. The real advantage is that because the walls are no longer cold, I feel much warmer at 19C 24hrs than at 20C timed; in fact it is then too warm which means the thermostat can be turned down further, currently at 17C. At that temperature my energy consumption is much lower than the 20C timed case, and I get the extra benefit of feeling comfortable all of the time.

The only real way to know what will happen in your house is to measure it, but note that it takes my house 48hrs before it reaches its new steady state after a change, and so energy consumptions during the stabilisation period are meaningless for comparison purposes.

neilrlsmith

Thanks.

Whilst the title does say constant v timer, I think my problem is not really that.

My 2 main issues are:-

1) the best way to heat a 6" slab of concrete (and there is a lot of glass in our kitchen).

2) How to get the downstaits radiators up to 20 degress. On timer, (5:30am) it's still at 15 degrees when we come down stairs (7:30am). No bricks take that long to warm up surely. Perhaps overnight downstiars is really dropping due to it being so cold...

victor2

neilrlsmith wrote: »

2) How to get the downstaits radiators up to 20 degress. On timer, (5:30am) it's still at 15 degrees when we come down stairs (7:30am). No bricks take that long to warm up surely. Perhaps overnight downstiars is really dropping due to it being so cold...

What water temperature is your boiler set at? Consider turning it up a bit.
If your heating is going off at 8pm and not coming back on until 5am, then a lot of heat will have been lost, particularly if the house is not well insulated, and the heating will not reach the desired temperature in the few hours it is switched on.
Small point, but your heating pump will be running flat out during that time as well, using electricity at significantly more per kWh than gas. It has been particularly cold lately as well, so the temperature can easily have dropped more than the heating can replace in the few hours it is set to come on.

neilrlsmith

Thanks for this. I have a new Valliant boiler. Opened the panel. Lots of symbols with a big 75 degrees in the middle...

oldskoo1

Yes i would say 17c 24/7 would be cheaper than 20c timed

I have tested it a few times in 2 different houses

However, 17c all day and off overnight is cheaper still. I dont notice a chill in the house / cold walls, it's warm again by the time i get up. 17c timed is ultimately the cheapest, but where do you draw the line on comfort. I would advise only using the CH when you need it and set it to come on 40 mins before you get in / up. It needs to be 21c in the living areas and 18c in bedrooms.

Whilst 17c might be warm for my system it might not be adequate for yours. I run with 17c all day and 17.5c at night with an automatic programmable thermostat. Because it is situated in a big hall with a smallish radiator the setting translates to 21c in the living and sitting rooms and 18c in the bedrooms which are all controlled by TRV's. You should aim for those temps to be baseline comfortable.

neilrlsmith

Having spoke to Vallianrt and a plumber I now realise I have other issues which kind of void my original question.

I have two issues:-
1) The anti clycling symbol is on. That means that there is a blockagae and the pump is working harder to try and distribute the water (for those that didnt know )
2) The pump is nowehere near big enough for my house.

So that constant v timer question is irrelevant for me. My bills will be huge until I resolve these issues!!