HIPs: what are they good for...................

Gorgeous_George

david29dpo wrote: »

I am sorry to say this will be my last ever post. I no longer enjoy trying to help others on here. Good bye.

Was it something I said?

I sincerely hope not.

GG

daveyjp

What are they good for? The "+VAT" part of the quote - nice earner for HM Govt.

No survey included and this is all puchasers are bothered about - most don't understand leases or registration documents.

I wouldn't trust a vendors survey anyway.

chriserenity

Richard_Webster wrote: »

If they feel that they must have Energy certificates (the only new thing) then they could be required before a purchase was registered at the Land Registry, which would mean a buyer would want to see it before exchange of contracts (to make sure it wasn't really dire and to make sure it existed so he could be registered.)

From an energy assessor point of view this would be the same as the current situation. At the moment the the Energy Performance Certificate is only actually needed for contracts to be exchanged on those properties requiring HIPs. I'm talking about the first day marketing principle. This rule states the HIP only has to be ordered for marketing to begin. The rule has already been extended by six months and is now (re)set to expire in June this year. After this point the EPC will need to be available before marketing can commence in much the same way as A-G graphs must be in place before marketing can begin in other areas e.g. white goods. Some people are worried this will cause further problems with the market but I think this is unfounded as most EPCs are being produced and delivered on the same day inspection takes place and usually with two days of instruction.

In my humble opinion as a newcomer to the property industry there is something fundamentally wrong with making information pertinent to the sale available at the end of the process. Wasn't this why HIPs were created? To use a crude example you wouldn't buy a dishwasher and then expect to be given the A-G information at the checkout!

In terms of people looking at the EPC, I would agree that alot of buyers just aren't bothered. The reasons for this are twofold I think. First, the growing movement of environmental responsibility in the masses is hardly in full swing yet. As many people are not concerned about energy efficiency, why should they be bothered about seeing the EPC? Fair question. I think of it in terms of satisfying a growing demand so for once the government (by that I mean the EU) has pre-empted a growing trend rather than reacted to it and addressed it too late.

Second, Estate Agent perception seems to be that because buyers are not asking for the EPC they should not show them. Most buyers who would be interested in the EPC don't know about it! The government uniformly failed to do any promotion of the EPC. Also, as the public perception of the familiar A-G scale is that if something is not A rated then it is sub-standard, why would the agent who's job it is to represent the seller promote this information as it is only of use to the seller if the rating is good which is rare in my experience! This is a key flaw in the government's reliance on agents to promote the EPC IMO. Any agents care to comment on this?

Generally speaking more information is in every case better than less. To take the example again of the white goods industry. Energy efficiency labelling prompted consumers to demand A rated appliances as the standard. Why should homes (especially new homes) be any different? For example when I tell socially conscious people that this year homes are being built that do not rate band A and that the average rating of a house in this country is closer to the bottom of the EPC scale than the top it prompts questions, interest and attention which wouldn't be there without the EPC.

I'd bet that if we didn't have the EPC, people would be crying out for at least its function if not its wrapping (the HIP) within 10 years!

Merlot

daveyjp wrote: »

What are they good for? The "+VAT" part of the quote - nice earner for HM Govt.

No survey included and this is all puchasers are bothered about - most don't understand leases or registration documents.

I wouldn't trust a vendors survey anyway.

Absolutely, and why should I pay out for a energy survey on a house that is 18 months old? surely it should meet the required standards of the Energy efficiency report. Its just a money making scheme, and it be quite honest it should have been scrapped completely.

A number of QS's spent a great deal of money on the full training package and then the government pulls the plug on the most important part of the HIP - the survey. Their is very little money to be made on these packs - my OH was offered a training package, but refused, I'm so pleased that he did!

Rabiddog_2

To me HIPS are simply the first stage in a more long term process. Possibly either taxing people more for not having an efficient house or maybe charging more in stamp duty or some other nefarious deed. But the idea is to get it in there, then expand it later. I also think its a good idea for there to be one survey done rather than having every potential buyer get one. ATM its not a tax raising vehicle for the GOV unlike car tax

jimc_2

HIPs are an excellent idea badly executed by a poor minister who backed down when opposed by vested interests and which was hijacked as an easy way of introducing EEC regulations.

The original idea of having just ONE survey and a set of searches in place before the property was offered on the market would have solved the old problem of buyers being penalised with a new survey for every purchase that fell through for whatever reason. Surveys have shown that a huge proportion of sales failed after the survey so why not have it disclosed upfront? Excellent idea - but surveyors don't like the idea of only one survey per property sale. What happened? The HCR (The survey) was dropped! With that the whole intention of the HIP was lost.

The EPC is a real red herring and was only tacked on at the last moment as a means of complying with EEC regulations without the hassle of a vote.

The fact that buyers don't look at them is also irrelevant. Of course they don't look if the only content now is a set of searches that only have meaning to the solicitor and an energy survey that has no relevance to what they think of the property. They would look if the survey was there.

HIPs can be, and need to be FIXED not dropped. Perhaps the new Minister will help if she can stand up to vested interests.

chriserenity

Merlot wrote: »

Absolutely, and why should I pay out for a energy survey on a house that is 18 months old? surely it should meet the required standards of the Energy efficiency report.

A number of QS's spent a great deal of money on the full training package and then the government pulls the plug on the most important part of the HIP - the survey. Their is very little money to be made on these packs - my OH was offered a training package, but refused, I'm so pleased that he did!

Your point about newbuilds is a very valid one I think. In fact from April this year a newbuild EPC (a different beast) will be produced for newbuild EPCs in place of the current transitional arrangements. This will be conducted by the same people who produce the SAP certificates and will be a far more detailed survey (from off plan info) And no, if a house is built now it won't necessarily be A rated if it was built to the previous set of building regs. More likey to be band B or possibly C I would say.

If nothing has been altered in the house the information in an EPC is as valid as the day it was produced in terms of its usefulness. Legally speaking a domestic rental sector EPC has a legal life of 10 years compared to the single year expiry of when an EPC can't after this point be put in a HIP. I did an EPC on a next to newbuild house last month and I recommended no less than 4 ways the energy efficiency of the property could be improved. Roll on part L I say!

Yes, I sympathise with people who trained to be Home Inspectors on the understanding that every house sold will need one. I trained to be an energy assessor after the announcement that the HCR was to be voluntary as did thousands of others.

chriserenity

jimc wrote: »

The EPC is a real red herring and was only tacked on at the last moment as a means of complying with EEC regulations without the hassle of a vote.

The fact that buyers don't look at them is also irrelevant. Of course they don't look if the only content now is a set of searches that only have meaning to the solicitor and an energy survey that has no relevance to what they think of the property. They would look if the survey was there.

I would agree the rest of the HIP is broadly not for the buyer but is a solicitors information pack.

Why do you think the EPC is a red herring? The rest of Europe will all have them by 2009 if the Greeks get cracking that is I beg to differ but some buyers ARE looking at the EPC. Again, the ones that know about it. People don't ask for things they don't see the point of - most people don't know what the EPC shows and how it is useful. Government's fault mostly I think.

The interest in the EPC can only grow to become an accepted benchmark for energy efficiency and carbon footprint in buyer's minds IMO. I think interest in it will rise as concern for these matters climbs up the list of factors buyers consider important when purchasing a property.

wayoflife

forgive my ignorance but don't the HIP'S include local authority surches?

If so then I think that HIPS are, in part, a good idea, as they help first time buyers with their initial buying costs

chriserenity

wayoflife wrote: »

forgive my ignorance but don't the HIP'S include local authority surches?

If so then I think that HIPS are, in part, a good idea, as they help first time buyers with their initial buying costs

Yes, they include the Local Authority search as well as the Water Authority search and the land registry documents and the Sales Statement and the Energy Performance Certificate and the lease if leasehold and the new homes warranty if a newbuild.

If they are quality HIPs they also include the Home Use form and the Home Contents forms as well as guarantees and certificates but these are optional.

All this free to first time buyers.