Subsidence - when buying and selling?

whirlwind

Hi

Has anyone bought a house which had structural movement (where you could get a mortgage, and enough for a claim/or not)? What happened? What the claim going through at the time?

Would you never buy a house that has had structural movement (subsidence), even it had been underpinned?

How much would you expect a house to be reduced by if had subsidence (in the South East)? Does it make it really hard to really the house? How much of a risk was it for you?

Or did you have to sell a house with subsidence?

Any stories - it would be good to hear about them. The structural engineer thinks it's ok, the solicitor does not, the surveyor thinks we would just need to redecorate. Thinking of cases where you can get insurance and a mortgage.

Thanks

Debt_Free_Chick

whirlwind wrote: »

Hi

Has anyone bought a house which had structural movement (where you could get a mortgage, and enough for a claim/or not)? What happened? What the claim going through at the time?

Would you never buy a house that has had structural movement (subsidence), even it had been underpinned?

Wouldn't bother me. I'd rather buy a property that had subsidence fixed, as opposed to one that has subsidence, yet to be discovered! :eek:

And it depends on the cause of the subsidence and whether it could continue, in the future e.g. drains/tree roots - subsidence can be halted if the problem is removed. Ongoing movement is more difficult - it would depend.

How much would you expect a house to be reduced by if had subsidence (in the South East)? Does it make it really hard to really the house? How much of a risk was it for you?

I would expect the valuation to take account of current state of the property.

Or did you have to sell a house with subsidence?

Yes - at full asking price within 3 weeks of putting it on the market. No kitchen - just a shell. Marketed this as a benefit, so that buyer could have exactly the kitchen they wanted. Underpinning had only been finished for a month or so.

Any stories - it would be good to hear about them. The structural engineer thinks it's ok, the solicitor does not, the surveyor thinks we would just need to redecorate. Thinking of cases where you can get insurance and a mortgage.

There are specialist insurers that will look "more favourably" on properties with a history of subsidence. And the existing insurer will offer you insurance. Mortgage shouldn't be a problem ... depends on the type of subsidence and the work done so far.

HTH

Biggie

Just about to purchase a house that has been underpinned.

I was a bit pe'd off because it wasn't declared upfront. I tried to get a reduction but vendor wouldn't budge so didn't really get a discount. But then it's in an area of really decent schools and nice family area with good transport links.
here are my thoughts:-

- There is a stigmatism associated with subsidence properties. Some people run a mile others see advantages. (i.e underpinned stronger structure). Thereore resale can be harder as you need to find the right kind of buyer.
- Insurance can be difficult to obtain on the off set for the purchaser, which makes a sale difficult.
- Also insurance can rise drastically, though I phoned the current insurancer who took on the insurance under my name with a normal premium.
- If you have paperwork that defo helps. i.e building regs etc etc

Debt_Free_Chick

Just my thoughts on this ....

Biggie wrote: »

Just about to purchase a house that has been underpinned.

I was a bit pe'd off because it wasn't declared upfront.

No obligation on the Seller to declare it. Our system of buying means "Caveat Emptor" or "Buyer Beware" .... it's up to you to do your own research and/or get professionals in to advise e.g. surveyor.

Anyway ... did the Seller know? Or was the work done before they bought it. They might not have known if they didn't do the right research when they bought the property.

I tried to get a reduction but vendor wouldn't budge so didn't really get a discount.

Perhaps a discount/reduction wasn't justified The Seller's valuer would have valued the property "as is" including the underpinning. But if there is no current subsidence issue, then there isn't "an issue" as such .... is there?

There are ssssoooooooo many properties in the Country that have been underpinned or had subsidence that's been fixed, that it's almost not an issue an more.

- There is a stigmatism associated with subsidence properties. Some people run a mile others see advantages. (i.e underpinned stronger structure). Thereore resale can be harder as you need to find the right kind of buyer.

Fully agree with this. But there are other issues, too, for which the same applies e.g. extension with no planning permission, building regs sign-off, boundary/neighbour disputes (in the past); easements; covenants .... etc

- Insurance can be difficult to obtain on the off set for the purchaser, which makes a sale difficult.

But if the building is currently insured, then the existing insurer will continue to offer insurance on it.


Not disagreeing with you, but just trying to balance the argument

elvis_girl

I was trying to remortgage my g/f flat about 6 months ago, and had to get an engineers report as the banks surveyor said possible structural movement That bank pulled the mortgage offer. I went to a different bank showed them the same engineers report and they gave me the remortgage! Like Biggie I was p'ed off about knowing when I bought but I guess you pay for your own information & I'll be saying nowt about it when I hope to sell

whirlwind

elvis_girl wrote: »

I'll be saying nowt about it when I hope to sell

Hi, thanks!

So you don't have to tell them, and it does not go into the HIPS then?

whirlwind

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you, but just trying to balance the argument

Thanks for the balance!

This house has had structural movement (I am not sure the difference between that an subsidence?)

There has not been a claim yet, and the structural engineers don't think there's anything bad enough wrong with it to claim.

Andread

I have been looking at buying a house in the Stoke on trent area. The people who own this property say it has been underpinned, thought they can't find the report as there elderley relative that has died, misplaced it. I rang the borough council and asked if they had any record of it being underpinned and they said, no. This now means that if it was not underpinned with there knowledge, it may not have been done properley. I may have to have it underpinned at my own expense, so as to prove to the buildings insurance company and future buyers when i come to sell it on.

I have been told by a surveyot that if it was underpinned through the previous insurance company and the job was done properley then the internal repairs would have been done as well. But there are cracks to the front of the house and the double glazing is bowing. The internal floor boards are sloping. It needs the usual new kitchen, central heating, double glazing, electrical re-wire and new bathroom. This is all extra work and extra cost.

Does anyone know how much it might cost to underpin a house?

Does anyone think it may be worth the risk of just buying it and putting faith in the people selling it, or am i being nieve.

Should i offer them a reduction on there price and could anyone tell me what a fair percentage reduction might be!

Thanks Andread

Doozergirl

You need to have a structural engineer look at the property to see if they feel the movement is ongoing. I would suggest that you ask the vendors to pay for that report.

It's impossible to say on the internet. It's possilbe that the house has moved, that the source of the problem has been fixed, but that some of the symptoms of the problem haven't been rectified.

You need to ask as many questions as you can - when it was carried out, who did it and most importantly, what the cause was!

Sloping floors will concern people and it would be better if they weren't doing that! You can jack them up from underneath but you will need full access to the joists from underneath which may mean ripping up boards or ripping down ceilings.

Houses do move and no-one should expect totally plumb walls in 100 year old houses etc but obvious faults that haven't been rectified like the floors and racked(sp?) doorframes etc will cause people to ask questions but they can be fixed too. If you tell someone that a house has been underpinned and there is no evidence of wonkiness then people will be more inclined to trust you.

You generally don't underpin houses, you underpin walls or sections of wall. You can expect to pay £1000 per linear metre of underpinning and you can expect an almighty mess!

Ultimately, a structural engineer would be the person to consult and if you do hire them yourself, you can ask them whether they would proceed if it were them

Biggie

Andread,

First get as much free information as you can

- Start with current insurer if they we're the ones who settled the claim see if they have any supporting paper work (though you will need permission from policy holder for this)
- Check the council website some allow to check what bulding regs was applied for on a property.
- Also before you incurr any costs check to see if you can get building insurance on the property.

If you want to proceed then I would recommend you get a structural engineer to look at it ?.

Structrual claims can run into 10's of thousands and is normally something done through an insurance company and can take many years. Underpinning is done as a last resort these days as they first try and find the root cause and correct that first. Sounds like the house suffered some serious damage internally some of these would bug me and I would want them corrected. Hence I would either require a huge reduction + an insentiive to put these right or walk away.

Lastly if your happy with everything make an offer and list your reasons for a reduction.

Don't trust the people selling it they have a vested intrest, the risk is just too high in this case as you stand to lose 00000's

Leeds_Fella

Hi,
I bought a house 7 years ago that had been underpinned within the 6 months prior of me buying it. Was I worried - f### yes I was. I owned the house for 7 years and did not see a crack at all interior or exterior during my time.
I sold it 5 months ago and did not disclose the underinng (as I did not need to and it was done before I bought it by the previous vendor) that the house was underpinned.
I can honestly say and endorse that buying a house that has been underpinned and has the building regs to state it has been completed correctly, is in a far better postion that the next door neighbour that has not been underpinned.

The house / extension is more solid will not move again. I can and will sleep at night after selling the house.

You need to understand the reasons why a house may need underpinning - bad drainage, flood, large trees in close proximity to the house. The area, land, badly built may not be the reason