HELP! Can we go to Florida with a former convict??!!

saveapenny

beg to differ we where on a flight 2 years ago with 2 of our friends he "went for it" too
After 2 days of being held in no mans land he was finally sent home at his expense.
Do you know that the passenger manifest is sent to the US before the plane even takes off? Did you know they have access to ALL UK records.
He hadn't even spent time in prison he had just been up in front of the magistrate.
Please don't under estimate or think people are going OTT on this its serious and the yanks are going way way way over board and in light of what happened yesterday security will only get tougher
Good luck and I suppose its his money and his choice to risk it hope you all have a good holiday

Cardew

Savapenny,

Firstly let me repeat what I said in an earlier post, that I do not advocate lying on the I-94W. Even though the USA only send back a tiny handful out of the millions who arrive each year, I wouldn’t like even that risk.

That said, there was a programme on TV some while ago that indicated that nearly all of those sent back put ‘Yes’ against the relevant question on the I-94W or asked US Immigration for clarification of what the question meant. Bear in mind that many have never seen an I-94W until they get to the airport or(wrongly) think that the Rehabilitation of Offenders act puts them in the clear.

However it depends what you mean by access to “ALL UK records”. There is a reciprocal agreement where the CRO of each country will exchange any information. However this is a long winded process which no doubt accounts for your friend’s "2 days in no mans land."

To do it in 2 days is quite a feat. Perusal of some of the Florida forums will show the difficulty some Visa applicants have in getting their memorandum of conviction(MOC) from a court even for fairly recent convictions. The police having absolutely no record of their offences.

I don’t know what offence your friend committed but presumably it involved an arrest. The US embassy regulations make it clear that if you have ever been arrested you need a visa. That applies regardless of any guilt, conviction etc.

However none of this applies to Uncle Cuddles Father in Law. He was not arrested. He committed a Civil offence and by no stretch of the imagination could that be called a CIMT(crime involving moral turpitude).

So on the relevant question on the I-94W, he can put ‘No’ with a clear conscience.

Kimberley

Uncle_cuddles do you mind saying how much the trip cost you? I'm wanting to take myself and my 3 kids to Orlando next May to visit a friend..If you let me know roughly how much it cost i'd appreciate it..you don't have to say exact, just roughly

pug_in_a_bed

...but i think it depends on whether this polltax thing was recorded as a criminal conviction.

Family had booked a holiday to the states in 2004. The american ambassador happened to be on the radio discussing this subject by chance, basically saying don't bother if you have a record.

This panicked one family member who had been in prison for a number of months in early 70's. Called relevant agencies to investigate.

On calling the american embassy and speaking to the specific department, was told absolutely not going to be allowed for a visa. That individual was told they could come for an interview but only to be allowed in exceptional circumstances ie family death for example.

The most frightening thing was that once family member gave his name for details to be checked, the individual at the embassy was able to state the dates of conviction, imprisonment, the offence and address of the prison.

So there was one person missing when we went away.
It was horrible, obviously other family members did not know so and so had gone to prison and were shocked. However, it was a minor offence which you wouldn't be imprisoned for today (unlikely anyway) - not a terrorist for gods sake.

Sorry for bad typing i'm furious remebering.

Cardew

smam21 wrote:

...but i think it depends on whether this polltax thing was recorded as a criminal conviction.

Family had booked a holiday to the states in 2004. The american ambassador happened to be on the radio discussing this subject by chance, basically saying don't bother if you have a record.

This panicked one family member who had been in prison for a number of months in early 70's. Called relevant agencies to investigate.

On calling the american embassy and speaking to the specific department, was told absolutely not going to be allowed for a visa. That individual was told they could come for an interview but only to be allowed in exceptional circumstances ie family death for example.

The most frightening thing was that once family member gave his name for details to be checked, the individual at the embassy was able to state the dates of conviction, imprisonment, the offence and address of the prison.

So there was one person missing when we went away.
It was horrible, obviously other family members did not know so and so had gone to prison and were shocked. However, it was a minor offence which you wouldn't be imprisoned for today (unlikely anyway) - not a terrorist for gods sake.

Sorry for bad typing i'm furious remebering.

I am sorry but I really do not understand some points in your post;

If you apply for a Visa you have to supply the details of your offence(s) and punishment yourself, either from the police or a MOC Memorandum of Conviction from the court that convicted you.

It is also standard practice that the US Embassy will never discuss individual cases on the phone and the only advice they give is: "if unsure come for an interview." How do the Embassy even know who they are talking to on the phone - let alone go into detail of criminal record etc.

I know of many cases where people with serious criminal convictions, albeit some while ago, are allowed a Visa. It seems rather strange that a minor offence, committed 30 years ago, caused such a response.

If he was told on the phone he would not get a Visa, why did he go for interview?

Are you sure he wanted to go to the USA? Or could his offences be more recent and serious than he wanted you to know about

Alfie_E

smam21 wrote:

...but i think it depends on whether this polltax thing was recorded as a criminal conviction.

This is my understanding of it.

It wasn't criminal. It wasn't even a conviction. The father-in-law would have said he couldn't pay. The magistrates would have made a committal order. They would have issued a warrant for committal, and he would have been committed to prison.

Usually, you think of being committed to prison as an example of a sentence when someone is convicted, but the two are separate. Clearly, you can be convicted, but not committed to prison. Equally, you can be committed to prison, but not because of a conviction. A good proportion of people who end up in prison are there for breaching court orders.

pug_in_a_bed

Cardew wrote:

I am sorry but I really do not understand some points in your post;

If you apply for a Visa you have to supply the details of your offence(s) and punishment yourself, either from the police or a MOC Memorandum of Conviction from the court that convicted you.

It is also standard practice that the US Embassy will never discuss individual cases on the phone and the only advice they give is: "if unsure come for an interview." How do the Embassy even know who they are talking to on the phone - let alone go into detail of criminal record etc.

I know of many cases where people with serious criminal convictions, albeit some while ago, are allowed a Visa. It seems rather strange that a minor offence, committed 30 years ago, caused such a response.

If he was told on the phone he would not get a Visa, why did he go for interview?

Are you sure he wanted to go to the USA? Or could his offences be more recent and serious than he wanted you to know about

He did not go for an interview - it was an option they gave but he was told it was very unlikely he would be given a visa.

He gave details of his name and such and they were able to repeat back details about the conviction.

No there were no more serious offences or recent ones. Obviously there is a lot more detail to this that I don't want to post just in case!

Yes , the individual wanted to go to the states. It was all very confused as this came up close to the leaving date, and we couldn't really believe this would have an effect so he called up the embassy aand spoke to someone who once his name and so on was given was able to repeat these details.

I'm sorry if i wasn't very clear, we all found it strange that a conviction so long ago would be affecting life now, so it gets me really wound up as you can probably imagine!

Cardew

smam21,
I sorry to be pedantic on this matter, but your post is illustrates perfectly how ‘Urban Myths’ are created.

As I said earlier the US embassy refuse to discuss such matters in the phone and at £1.50 a minute that is no bad thing.

Your initial post stated:

"The most frightening thing was that once family member gave his name for details to be checked, the individual at the embassy was able to state the dates of conviction, imprisonment, the offence and address of the prison."

Are you seriously suggesting that someone(anyone) can ring the Embassy and claim to be Joe Smith(or whoever) and the US Embassy official not only has access to detailed information on a UK citizen’s 30 year old conviction for a minor offence, but is prepared to reveal it to the person on the other end of the telephone line.(who claims to be Joe Smith)

Sorry but it just didn’t happen as you have stated.

pug_in_a_bed

oh my goodness, I was there!
Ok, I can't be sure what department he spoke to or got put through to, but I assure you that is how it happened, which just demonstrates how strongly the american government feels on this issue! I'm afraid you will have to take my word for it.

I have no reason to make this up. I posted as this topic has actually affected a family holiday. Please remeber there is an incredible wealth of information on people nowadays, and this conviction also came up on a recent crb clearance the individual was required to do. Please bear in mind the ammount of info the individual had to give over the phone was not just his name, obviously.

The family member did not just go through the motions and apply for a visa but caleld the relevant agencies to see what would be the case. Obviously if he had he may have been lucky and got through the system fine as I' m sure lots of people are. But at the time, we had heard this report that people will criminal rcords had to apply for a visa so were very very worried.

Uncle_Cuddles

Kimberley wrote:

Uncle_cuddles do you mind saying how much the trip cost you? I'm wanting to take myself and my 3 kids to Orlando next May to visit a friend..If you let me know roughly how much it cost i'd appreciate it..you don't have to say exact, just roughly

£2900 via travel city direct for 4A 4C. Early June is usually the cheapest time to go. We went last year (with out in-laws) in June for £2200 via Direct Holidays (2A 3C) but had to pay extra for car insurance.