Should we move? Scary neighbours ...

(Land_of)_Maz

Yes - move in a few months to a year - keep an eye out for a good deal on rent

maybe even speak to his OH, woman to woman as it were.

Or pop a note of apology thru the door, and see if they come back to you in some way.

Chances are if you get them in the cold light of day they will be really reasonable and accept that they went OTT... but as splish splash said, you didn't seem to heed his earlier hints so his levels were probably raised before that night.

and yes, see someone re the PTSD thing, it's important.

And maybe you should do your washing in the night... it might keep you awake too but it'll let them know how it feels... and it's more MSE at night! (tit for tat, i know, it's not good, but just feign innocence if they challenge you on it, they'd be mad too as they do the same thing!)

Broken_hearted

No - ignore it, stay and try to keep the noise down

I think its little things winding up both sides, alarm clocks and washers arn't harming anyone. Unless they are now going out of their way to be noisey then just let it go lifes too short.

belfastgirl23

I'd say go and talk to them. I remember once losing my temper with my upstairs neighbours (students) and actually screaming at them. And I lose my temper maximum once every ten years or so - normally I'm a very calm person. But I'd had a cold and had only just got to sleep, I had a big meeting in the morning which I was stressed about, DH was away and it was just a really bad time for me. And the guys upstairs got the worst of it. I still don't remember what I said but they didn't make any more noise

What I'm saying is that you might have just caught them at a bad time. Or perhaps you have been a lot noisier than you thought - like you say sometimes little sounds can travel and something completely innocuous like flicking over the tv could drive the person next door insane. See if you can start over on a fresh note.

But if the noise is that bad I'd def start looking around...

**edit** I also should have said that sometimes this is a normal form of communication for some people, I suppose if you're a doorman you might have a skewed view of how you communicate with people. and thus might not exactly have been meant as aggressively as it sounded...

duchy

One thing to remember is that most people who work in proper security jobs may look hard and mean but basically need to be licenced to work and any kind of criminal offence on their record will mean no job so it may very well be that his bark is worse than his bite. if he flips out at you-just call the police-he'll soon cool off.
I reckon you've been inadvertently winding him up just as much as he has been you and it's worth trying to talk it through with them

Jenna

Snaggles ~ Thanks for the sympathy it is rubbish isn't it! If they'd come down and just said, look, we're going to bed now, could you turn it down please? We'd have turned it right down or even off ... I just don't understand why they feel the need to be so rude.

red74 ~ That's the conclusion we're arriving at too ... how odd that the walls are so thin in an older flat! To be honest I don't think we'd live in a flat again, maybe a semi-detached house instead or something. Poor you with the neighbours fighting!

mum2one / Leixlip1 ~ It's a private rent ... I take your point that it can be worth reporting their behaviour but in all honesty, I just don't want the hassle. Maybe that sounds lazy but ultimately, it just doesn't seem worth it - we're never going to get neighbours that are happy with us by doing that, and it could even make it worse if they found out. Also I can see their position to a certain extent - I used to work Saturdays and loud people on a Friday night did annoy me - I would never have approached it like they did, but that doesn't mean he's in the wrong to want to be able to get some sleep either (or, I might add, are we in the wrong to want to have friends round on the weekend). To be honest I think most of the people in this flat block can either afford to go out all the time, or are at a different stage of life e.g. starting a family and therefore don't necessarily want to have friends round all the time anyway ... maybe we're just a bad match for the place? We're not excessively noisy people but if you're trying to sleep, even a little noise (and I know from experience!) will make it near impossible to nod off.

splishsplash ~ We've now had a look online at several properties to get a feel for the cost of renting in this area. It looks like the more central properties are at the same price or higher than what we're paying now ... properties a few miles away are between £40 - £100 cheaper p/month, but then we would have the transport issue as neither of us drive. We would need a bus pass each to get to work (£35 - £50 each, route dependant) plus if we go out into town, we would need to get a taxi home instead of walking back (which we do now).

We have both had one gathering (in recent months) that I would describe as late night (by which I mean past 1am) - when he came round and had a go it was 5 mins to midnight. On a school night I would see his point, but for a Friday night I don't think that's an unreasonable time of night to have friends round ... and he's had people round at this time of night several times before, too.

He did technically warn us in advance, but with only 2 hours notice, so we couldn't actually benefit from this warning by making other plans. We didn't warn him in advance about the 1st gathering, you're right, but we also didn't pre-plan it and people just ended up coming back to ours (only 4 people I might add).

He says he didn't send us that note, and we only ignored it because it wasn't signed by anyone - we couldn't even go round and apologise since we didn't know what number it was from! So in the end we just decided to throw it away.

I do see your point (and his) about him working on the weekends and I think it's pretty reasonable for him to ask us to keep the noise if he is working. The time he came down he actually wasn't working on that weekend but I suspect he was just making a point if you see what I mean?

The last thing we want is to be unreasonable but equally, we pay a pretty fair chunk of money to rent this place, and if we can't even do our own thing on our days off where's the point? I don't want to upset the neighbours at all but equally would like to feel that they're not controlling our lives.

I am not saying that I feel I am in immediate danger, but he was very aggressive. He also said that we alright this time, but that "next time he would lose his temper". His girlfriend also jumped in front of him at one point when he leaned in towards my OH and was being very angry - I have seen a few fights start in town and it looked to me like he was going to start a fight. I appreciate that household noise is really something they can't do anything about - although they do their washing overnight, so their spin cycle kicks in just when I'm trying to nod off! Anyway - I have never complained to them about their noise - and I don't intend to now. I feel that living in a flat means you will hear a certain amount of other people's noise and we are prepared to live with that - but only when it cuts both ways, as it were.

Jenna

Maz ~ I would rather speak to his OH than him, I would feel more comfortable and I think she's more likely to be reasonable about it. Or a note would work too - will need to have a think about what's best. He says he didn't send the note, and he didn't knock/come down/say or do anything after the 1st gathering. So if he was annoyed, he should really have said something. But yes I think you're right about his levels probably being raised already. lol @ the washing

Broken Hearted ~ I agree, and that's why we've never complained to them about it. It's just not worth the hassle! But I do feel intimidated by it and as you say, life is too short - why get into it? I'd rather move to somewhere I feel safe and has enough sound proofing that noise isn't so much of an issue.

belfast girl ~ Hehe you probably did scare them! Yes it could well have been a bad time for them ... and we could sound noisier from upstairs than we think, even if it's not excessively loud, if the sound travels it could still sound v. loud from their flat? I do feel as though I'm coming around to the conclusion that no matter who is at fault, we do need a better sound proofed place. And I take your point about the shouting potentially being his normal form of communication - I guess as a security guard you do it all day anyway so

duchy ~ That's possible, I hadn't thought of it that way before ... if he comes down again like that I may well have to call them, it was quite scary. Looking back it does seem like lack of communication has caused a lot of the problems we've had, e.g. he probably doesn't know we can hear all his noise (as we've not complained) and he didn't come down / say anything when we've had karaoke before, so we presumed the 2nd time it was OK so long as it was at a fairly low volume.

Hmm ... food for thought.

I rather think we'll end up moving out, but not immediately - perhaps in a few months time or something. In the meantime it can't hurt to send a note apologising or something like that.

In my normal budget I have £100 as fun/going out money and if we were able to stay in more / go round to friend's houses, that could certainly be cut right back. Looking online for a semi-detached house it's looking like it'll be about £85 p / month each extra for me and my OH. If I can cut that out of another part of the budget I could justify it, but I don't want to sacrifice paying back my debts just to rent a house.

Does that sound logical to you guys? *wanders off to have a play with budgets*

angelflower_2

You say its modern flats (and having worked with new developments in the past I can fully empathise) and so they should have a factor.

Contact the factoring company as they made have had previous problems with them. or can offer mediation to take away the problem of you all getting into a slanging match, which with the best of intentions, happens quite often when even trying to remain calm. Your neighbours may be renting and for the abuse side of the deal, it would be worth logging the incident.

These thin walls can be a nightmare and I would be very selective about purchasing one of these properties in the future. However, you dont want to be costing yourself an absolute bomb in moving costs if there is absolutely anyway around it.

cowbutt

I sympathise with the OP, as my neighbour fairly regularly comes back from clubbing and puts music on at 3am or so, or like last night, from midnight to 2.45am. I'm coping today on about two hours' sleep. :-(

OTOH, I can't help but think there's a blame on both sides, here:

Jenna wrote: »

We have both had one gathering (in recent months) that I would describe as late night (by which I mean past 1am) - when he came round and had a go it was 5 mins to midnight. On a school night I would see his point, but for a Friday night I don't think that's an unreasonable time of night to have friends round ... and he's had people round at this time of night several times before, too.

Your neighbour's previous behaviour is taken into account, but the Noise Act 1996 doesn't agree: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_19960037_en_1#pb1-l1g2 suggests that noise between 11pm and 7am is considered particularly unacceptable. As a tenant, you may also find something that encompasses this in your contract. Personally, I turn music down after 9pm, and wouldn't dream of putting it on before 8am. Likewise, I generally won't complain until after midnight and before 7am. Last night I went round and spoke to them at 1.30am, for example, as it was only getting worse.

The last thing we want is to be unreasonable but equally, we pay a pretty fair chunk of money to rent this place, and if we can't even do our own thing on our days off where's the point? I don't want to upset the neighbours at all but equally would like to feel that they're not controlling our lives.

Your right to swing your fist ends an inch in front of my nose. Likewise for your neighbour.

Jenna

angelflower ~ Yes they are quite modern, I believe they were built in the last 3 years. I don't really know what a factoring company is? The neighbours have bought their flat, whereas we are renting, so I don't know if this would even apply? The thin walls are a pain and I personally probably wouldn't buy in a flat anyway (do to building service fees which can rise quite sharply sometimes - we've had friends who've been stung by this in the past) ... moving is not the expensive thing, last time we hired a Transit van for £35 for 1 day and got lots of friends involved too. The cost that does concern me is the new rent as going forward this could have a massive impact on our day to day budget.

cowbutt ~ Poor you having next to no sleep! I think that's the thing isn't it, acceptable noise levels will be considered differently by different people (and greatly affected by the level of sound proofing). My brother has had much louder house parties (e.g. 30 - 40 friends plus loud music), and no one's even mentioned it! Whereas here we've had 4 people round and it's caused a huge problem - largely I suspect due to the thin walls.

I suppose it does depend a lot on your lifestyle - in the week, we don't really have music on (unless you count the radio on quietly when am washing the dishes at 6pm lol) but at the weekend, midnight is the earliest time we tend to go to bed. I think our working hours and lifestyle are very different to his, and this does cause an issue - on a Saturday night, we want to relax and have fun, whereas he wants to sleep!

At the end of the day I don't think I can say that we're always perfect (can anyone though?) and I can see his point - and likewise, he's not altogether perfect.

In all honesty when I was living at home we could have music etc on until midnight ish and no one was phased by it - if 11pm is when he wants it turned off at the weekends, I may as well live at home and save myself over 50% of my paycheque (if you take into account rent, Council Tax, bills etc).

I guess the reason I don't is that I like my independence and living "on our own" with my OH ... it's nice to be able to come in and relax and do your own thing. What I keep coming back to is that if we can't do our own thing (and I will repeat the fact that we DO turn music down and we're not excessively loud), where is the point in it?

I know the neighbours you get are the luck of the draw but we are reasonable people and are quite happy to negotiate - e.g. if someone works on a Saturday morning we are quite happy to just not have people round on Friday nights, and move it to the Saturday night instead. But if it's both nights, and we can't afford to go out, we really are a bit stuck.

At the end of the day I think a flat is like living on the top and bottom floors of the same house - really noisy! I really think we need to be in a house to solve the issue ... it's the only way I can see around it right now.

I am rather puzzled by the comment about him/us swinging our fists - I could just be being blonde though!

The budgets are hurting my head though ... it depends on location / type of property / age / condition etc. Confusing :S ... nevermind will get there eventually!

dancingfairy

Personally I think about 11 pm is reasonable to turn music etc off - obviously if it is VERY Loud then that's different but the occasional night past that wouldn't bother me as long as it was on a weekend and it was only occasional.

P.S that does not mean I think that his behaviour was reasonable though.