Seeking advice re Zen "upgrading" our Internet, without any consent from us

PhotoMan

I wonder if anyone can offer any advice.
Our broadband and landline are provided by Zen Internet. The services we have are Unlimited fibre 2 (contract ended Nov 2022) and digital voice PAYG. We have a lifetime no price increase guarantee.
I am aware that there is an aim to retire the copper network.
I was surprised on 21st September to receive the following email from Zen:

"Thank you for choosing Zen Full Fibre! We're pleased to confirm your order and want to ensure you know what to expect during the installation process. We look forward to connecting you to our network and seeing you enjoy our services. Below is all the need-to-know information about your order, speed, and some detail about what happens next.

Your service should be installed with a single engineer visit, here is what to expect:

A fibre optic cable is run to your property, from the exchange via underground ducts or telegraph poles. The engineer will then connect the cable to a special fibre optic modem, known as an Optical Network Termination device (ONT) this will be on the inside of your home and need to be close to a power socket.

In the event the engineer finds the installation more complicated than planned we may need further visits to complete the setup. We will update you with further detail should this happen."

We had not asked for this upgrade at all.

On 30th Sept we received a further email from Zen Internet saying

"We’ve got some good news. We’re upgrading your broadband to full fibre through our network partner, CityFibre, giving you faster speeds without increasing your monthly price.

CityFibre full fibre uses fibre optic cables to deliver ultrafast and reliable internet to your home. You’ll move from Unlimited Fibre 2 to Full Fibre 900, with download speeds of up to 900mbps.

Your phone line
If you already have Digital Voice, it will continue to work over your new full fibre service.

What happens next?
A CityFibre engineer will need to visit your home to install your new full fibre connection. The exact work needed will depend on how CityFibre’s network reaches your home.

Typically, the engineer will connect your home either overhead using a nearby telegraph pole, or underground by digging a narrow channel up to your wall. They'll put a new connection box on the outside of your home, drill a small hole through the wall and connect another smaller box on the inside of your home. The team will make sure to clean up and leave you to enjoy your new ultrafast broadband service.

We’ll be in touch with more information about your installation and what happens next."

We then received an email from City Fibre with an appointment for an engineer to call on Nov 4th to perform the upgrade.

On 9th Oct I contacted Zen customer support explaining that we do not want anyone to touch the expensive stone flagging that covers our front garden and drive and we do not want anyone drilling holes in our walls and asking what our alternatives are. I was given a support ref no and have heard nothing further about that.

I have sent an email to Zen customer support marked urgent, quoting the case number, explaining the situation, but have still heard nothing.

Our phone/broadband line comes underneath our front garden and up through a six inch wide pebbled border by the house and in through the wall there. Other people in our street have upgraded to some sort of fibre system.

I am quite happy with the Internet service that we currently have and do not wish anything faster. I wonder what our options are and what might happen if we simply refuse access to anyone who calls on 4th Nov if we have heard nothing more from Zen Internet.
Thank you to anyone who has taken the trouble to read this long post.

Woodstok2000

The copper network (technically PSTN) is being switched off, but that shouldn't impact you if Zen are able to switch their copper broadband customers to single order generic ethernet access. Technically that should only be a temporary fix until you get full fibre, but it might be available longer term in your circumstances.

We had full fibre installed through an existing cable duct under the garden and through an existing hole in the wall, no digging or drilling involved.

You need to speak to them to find out what your options are, but nothing should change before January at the earliest, and likely not much will change then either.

littleboo

The OP said they already had digital voice from Zen, so they must be on SOGEA already

Woodstok2000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177638#Comment_82177638

Yes, that's what I meant when I said it shouldn't impact them, sorry if it wasn't clear. As they are already on SOGEA then there's no reason for any change apart from the wider move to upgrade to full fibre everywhere.

MattMattMattUK

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177659#Comment_82177659

Won't they likely get hit with a no-sell restriction soon, before being disconnected 2028-2030 anyway when the mandatory disconnect of all legacy copper products happens?

Blue_Doggy

This is what I’ve had (also from Zen). Like you, I’m perfectly happy with the setup I’ve got and don’t really want this change forced upon me.

I tried Zen’s chatbot thing, which was unable to help (in my case because the date they want to make us change is not doable), and I then spent an hour on hold trying to phone their customer services. The call was not answered. I emailed their customer services and got just an automated acknowledgement. Cityfibre’s email contains no contact details, and their chatbot was not helpful.

If it helps at all, when I returned home this afternoon I noticed a length of brown cable sticking out behind a plant tub close to where the BT line enters the house. I assume they have been along to do preparatory work (without permission) and somehow fed their cable through where the BT cable goes.

Woodstok2000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177685#Comment_82177685

It's possible, but likely to be much further off than 2028. The latest update in September announced openreach could increase prices from 2029 to 'encourage' customers off copper, so any forces disconnection is likely to be 2030 at the earliest and probably later than that.

https://www.reuters.com/business/uk-eases-rules-support-openreach-copper-network-switch-off-2029-2026-09-09/

Woodstok2000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177688#Comment_82177688

This sounds about right. Not sure they would need permission - when they did ours they fed the wire through the pipe from an access point on the street. I assume openreach own the infrastructure so can do what they want with it (within reason) - they didnt need to step on our property at any point until they came to the install date, at which point they will need to be let into the house if you want to proceed

iniltous

Zen use City Fibre and Openreach but where both are available prefer to use City Fibre , this change has nothing to do with PSTN switch off , or copper pair retirement , but Zen wanting to transfer you off Openreach and onto CF for their own commercial reasons.

As far as your options, obviously you start by contacting Zen , if your preference is to stay on your Zen SoGEA ( fibre to the cabinet) and they agree , great , they should simply cancel the City Fibre installation and allow you to remain as you are, if they insist on migration to CF (the incentive they would present to you presumably is the faster speeds available from CF FTTP ) but if you don’t want the upheaval of the installation (regardless of this being minor works or major works ) then you should be able to leave penalty free , after-all it’s them changing the terms of your supply , you then pick a different SoGEA supplier , the only snag would be if Openreach FTTP as well as City Fibre is now available, as most Openreach based suppliers will look to use OR FTTP if it’s available.

If there is no Openreach FTTP network available at your address , a host of ISPs are available to replace Zen , the problematic ones (apart from Zen) , are Sky and Vodafone as both operate in similar way to Zen , in that they will use City Fibre if they are available in preference to any Openreach network SoGEA or FTTP.

As far as what happens should Zen not respond to you before City Fibre turn up on the 4th November, simply send the CF installers away , hopefully Zen won’t switch off your SoGEA service on this date.

PhotoMan

Thank you for all the helpful and interesting replies so far.
Not sure I understand all the technical terms.
I think at the moment we'll sit tight and wait for Zen to respond to my support ticket and if anyone knocks on the door carrying a lump hammer and a drill I won't answer.

iniltous

in a nutshell, you currently have fibre to the cabinet from Openreach (called SoGEA when there is no legacy telephone service from the socket on the wall ) this isn’t being retired , what is being retired in January 2027 is old style telephone service from the wall socket but you don’t have that so it doesn’t affect you .

Zen are simply pushing you towards CF for their own purposes, for some this will not be an issue , but obviously in cases like yours where you don’t want any excavation or holes made in your walls to facilitate this change , they should let you stay as you are or let you leave to find another ISP that isn’t forcing you to take something you don’t want ….but as you say sit tight for a short while and hopefully Zen will be in touch