Requesting advice for unexpected CCJ

Racxie

Hi all,

I have a friend who kept getting billed by Southern Water (and a couple of others) for a previous address she hasn't lived at for several years despite hundres of calls telling them to change her address and explaining to them they cannot bill her for a property she doesn't live at. Yet despite hundreds of calls and letters they have refused to set their records straight and continued to harrass her.

Long story short they took her to court and won by default because she didn't turn up… except this all happened in August and she's only just found out today when she called them - she was completely blindsided because they had sent all the correspondence to the previous address so she had absolutely no idea they were even threatening her! As a result she now has a CCJ on file and I (believe) has agreed to a nominal monthly payment plan with Southern Water.

Researching online this is what I've understood so far:

• It's possible to cancel a CCJ by completing a N244 form and going to courtThere is a court fee of £321, but she may be exempt due to her income status - she would need to apply for this before submitting the claim
• As the court case was in August it's likely she's outside of the 1 month period that would have allowed her to clear the debt and remove the CCJ (I'm not sure when the CCJ was applied)
• The fact that she did not know about the court proceedings and CCJ because she had moved address might alone be enough to have it set aside

Sources I've looked at:

• MoneySavingExpert
• StepChange
• RecordingLaw
• MoneyHelper
• GOV.UK (CCJs)
• GOV.UK (court fees)

What I'm not clear on:

• How long she has to apply for the removal/setting aside of the CCJ?
• Would having agreed to the payment plan counted as "acceptance" and ruined her chances of appeal?
• Is she better of continuing to make the payments in the meantime while putting the claim in or stopping them for now?
• If she were to success in an appeal could she use the same court case to fight the debt itself or would this need a seperate filing?
• Is there a risk that Southern Water could commit fraud by lying about they might have that would help her case? e.g. claiming they had her correct address on file this whole time
• She could possibly classed as vulnerable for a few reasons - could this have any advantage?

A couple things to note:

• She does not have access to the old address so it's unlikely she'd be able to collect any evidence that any correspondence was sent there
• She does have paper records of when she moved properties and call logs with Southern Water (but no call recordings - something else they could theoretically delete or deny having)

I've only just found out about this and I'm absolutely furious. I will be calling the National Debtline, and Citizens Advice tomorrow, but any additional advice, answers to the questions above or other information would also be greatly be appreciated.

fatbelly

Getting advice from so many different sources may well result in confusion. You have named seven and we would be an eighth!

The reason she got a ccj in default is because she did not respond to the claim form. There was no hearing and therefore no question of her 'not turning up'

The address for service is a matter of record and she should contact the issuing court and ask for the particulars of claim, prior to applying for setaside (not 'making an appeal'). She should also ask for the judgement date, which is likely to be a couple of weeks ago if the claim was issued in August

There are three criteria: to apply promptly (not defined), to have a reason why she did not respond to the claim (sent to wrong address) and a defence with a reasonable prospect of success.

On that last point, are you sure that she denies liability for it? Making payments to the ccj would indicate otherwise

The mechanism for set aside is set out in the Newbies thread on the parking board, which you said you are familiar with.

Racxie

Getting advice from so many different sources may well result in confusion. You have named seven and we would be an eighth!

I wanted to make sure I did my research before cluelessly coming into here expecting to get all the answers - I learned my lesson with my own recent experience by not seeking advice before I acted 😅 and I just thought it'd be useful to show what I've looked at just in case!

The reason she got a ccj in default is because she did not respond to the claim form. There was no hearing and therefore no question of her 'not turning up'

My apologies. The terminology is not my strong point as I'm very much new to this and still trying to get my head around it, especially as my own situation (fortunately) never went this far.

The address for service is a matter of record and she should contact the issuing court and ask for the particulars of claim, prior to applying for setaside (not 'making an appeal'). She should also ask for the judgement date, which is likely to be a couple of weeks ago if the claim was issued in August

Thanks! This is the kind of advice that none of the sites mentioned, even the ones which explained that the form needs to be filled in.

There are three criteria: to apply promptly (not defined), to have a reason why she did not respond to the claim (sent to wrong address) and a defence with a reasonable prospect of success.

This also gives me a bit more hope as it seemed to me like I'd just be banking on the fact alone that she never received any correspondence due to the wrong address.

On that last point, are you sure that she denies liability for it? Making payments to the ccj would indicate otherwise

100%. She's been telling me about the hell she's had to go through with Southern Water (and others like British Gas) for years now. I've offered help multiple times in the past but she can be a bit too proud at times, and I'm under the impression that she believed getting the CCJ was the end of it and there wasn't anything she could do. But yes, this is what I believe is the glaring issue with where we are now - I have just dropped her a text advising her not to pay and to cancel any direct debits they may have setup in case it's not too late.

The mechanism for set aside is set out in the Newbies thread on the parking board, which you said you are familiar with.

I removed that part of my post as I didn't feel it was relevant here after all, but glad you noticed it as that just didn't cross my mind especially as I never ended up going that far with mine! So I'll have a read over it in the meantime.

Edit: @fatbelly the quote functionality seems to have changed a bit so I had to do it manually - tagging you just in case you don't see my response otherwise.

Reading through some of the advice from the parking thread about CCJs will be hard to apply due to a lot of it being around parking firms/processes, but as you said I think some of it might still be useful so still reading through it.

Racxie

Morning @fatbelly, just realised a slight issue:

The address for service is a matter of record and she should contact the issuing court and ask for the particulars of claim

How do I find out who the issuing court is when she doesn't have any letters?

fatbelly

You could assume it is the bulk centre. Try emailing

Caseprogression.cnbc@justice.gov.uk

The debtor will need to disclose name, address and case reference

Worried_fool

Another point… data controllers have a legal duty to maintain accurate records and keep them up to date. She notified this company of her change of address, but apparently they failed to note the change. That, in itself, is the basis of a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

Racxie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82176851#Comment_82176851

Thank you! After posting I did find out about TrustOnline, but glad to hear we can hopefully avoid going down that route.

I'll drop them an email on her behalf and hopefully they'll be able to come back to me and hopefully won't take too long in doing so.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82176910#Comment_82176910

This is honestly one of the things that has made me mad. I've just looked at ICO's website for their complaints process and I'm not sure if we'd be able to go down that route just yet as it looks like we need to file a formal complaint with Southern Water first (something I've been imploring her to do for a while now but I think she was just hoping this would go away with telling them the problem over the phone).

Will focus on getting the CCJ set aside first given its severity, and will then look at helping her put in a written formal complaint and raising that with ICO.

fatbelly

I'd be tempted to do a SAR to Southern Water and ask for details of all communication, in and out, all media, relating to account XXXXX.

https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/make-a-subject-access-request/

MattMattMattUK

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82176704#Comment_82176704

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82176851#Comment_82176851

Just a point on this, you can do nothing, your friend can. The court, Southern Water, or any third party will not correspond with you about anything to do with your friend, they are explicitly prohibited from doing so.

Racxie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177021#Comment_82177021

Thank you, will definitely do that as should hopefully help with putting a formal complaint in.

I have just sent an email to the case progression team but I’m not quite clear on which timeframe applies to me or if I can call them.

This is what I’ve sent them in case it helps anyone else (I wasn’t sure what information I needed to provide them so probably should have asked first):

Dears Sirs,
I am writing to you on behalf of my friend [friend’s full name] as I have her consent to enquire about this.

[friend’s name] just found out yesterday that she has received a CCJ that she had absolutely no awareness of because the debtors had provided the courts with the wrong address.

I’m therefore hoping you can please provide me with any relevant information so that we can apply for the CCJ to be set aside (I believe this should at least include the debtor’s name, address, and case reference, but I’m sure any other information you can share would be useful).

Please let me know if you need anything else from me in order to provide the above details.
Kind regards

Racxie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82177032#Comment_82177032

I know at this stage I can request for general information, but they should be able to speak to me if I provide them with a signed consent letter from her.

As per ICO’s link shared above:

If you are making the request for someone else, you should provide proof of ID and address for them (not for you). You will also need to provide evidence that you're allowed to make the request for them eg a signed letter of consent, a power of attorney document or proof of parental responsibility such as a birth or adoption certificate.

I have also worked in financial services myself so am aware that she may need to fill in some kind of consent form, but that might depend on the company. I don’t believe I would need power of attorney for this.