SIPP Providers who allow 'in specie' transfer from maturing SAYE to a SIPP

gopalgriffith

I have a Save As You Earn (SAYE) scheme at work, which is maturing early next year - into which I am paying the full £500 per month. Company share price is also performing extremely well, meaning that as it stands (current share price is about 4 times the option price), I am potentially going to make a significant gain when I exercise the options - in February next year.

I am pondering how to minimise my tax liabilities. I know I should be able to transfer two £20k tranches into ISAs, spread across two tax years (within 90 days of exercising the options) which will shield £40k of the shares from Capital Gains Tax (CGT).

But if I am lucky (i.e. share price doesn't fall significantly), I will have at least as much again which is likely to attract CGT. However, HMRC rules do seem to allow transfers into a personal pension, which would shield any gains from CGT - and tantalisingly, may also attract tax relief…

The problem is that there seem to be very few (if any) SIPP providers, who actually allow a direct in specie transfer from a maturing SAYE scheme into a SIPP. Has come across a provider / had any experience of doing this?

Any tips or suggestions gratefully received…

G

DRS1

This thread may be of interest

Clarification needed on 90 day SAYE shares to ISA transfer. — MoneySavingExpert Forum

I don't know if it is still possible to do the flexi ISA thing but if it is you may not need a SIPP at all.

HL get a mention in that thread so maybe worth asking them about how they do things since they do SIPPs as well as ISAs.

One interesting thing is that it seems the process may need to be different for SIPPs than for ISAs. For this transfer to work for a SIPP the shares have to go direct into the SIPP but it seems that maybe that isn't needed for the transfer to the ISA (see the quoted passage from HL on page 3 of the thread). That passage seems to suggest that HL don't do a direct transfer into their SIPP which may mean you wouldn't want to use them.

poseidon1

Historically, due it seems to the appalling lack of financial literacy amongst the general public, just to 3 to 5% of holders of matured SAYE shares availed themselves of the 90 day ISA transfer opportunity to shelter their gains. It is only the recent drop in the annual CGT exemption, that seems to have woken up more participants to this exceptional tax sheltering option.

Against that dismal backdrop, I am not at all surprised that virtually no DIY investment platform bothers to offer the alternative SAYE to Sipp option. Why expend resources on a tax sheltering option vanishingly few people will ever explore let alone know about?

Accordingly it appears only HL ( the biggest and longest established ) is the only DIY investment platform in this Sipp transfer market for SAYE see below -

https://www.hl.co.uk/investment-services/transferring-your-existing-investments/employee-share-scheme-transfers

However since the manner in which HL handles SAYE to Sipp transfer is an intermediate transfer to their fund and share account, they acknowledge this may well trigger a CGT disposal, which for the OP likely entirely defeats the whole point of the exercise.

Only tip therefore is if you are married there is always the option to transfer some matured shares to spouse to use their CGT exemption. However with the exemption at a tiny £3,000, not much of a tip these days.

dunstonh

The last time I did one of these, we used a PEP initially and then switched to the pension wrapper.

MallyGirl

when OH looked into this it was the SAYE provider that could/would not support the transfer to SIPP. He did manage a £20k slice to an ii ISA ok. Sadly his job counts as some sort of protected role so he couldn't transfer any shares to me.

gopalgriffith

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82145560#Comment_82145560

Hmmm. The flexi-ISA option is interesting. I am not convinced that it is in the spirit of the rules, but if technically possible would definitely be something to explore. Will also have another look at Hargreaves Lansdowne - although the fact that they transfer first into a GIA - and from there into an ISA or SIPP feels like a "Bed and ISA" type transaction which does trigger CGT.

DRS1

OK So I thought the flexi ISA thing had been stopped but when I mentioned that on one of the transfer to ISA threads I was told it was still possible (or someone had just done it). I will have a trawl to see if I can find that thread - I couldn't before.

Equiniti (EQI) had a web page explaining how to do it and that page seemed to have been taken down the last time I looked. That just reinforced my thinking it had been stopped.

To do this you will need to find a flexible S&S ISA and that may not be easy. I have a feeling the HL S&S ISA is not flexible (but you may want to check that)

Maybe the best people to ask about this would be Equiniti.

On the Bed & ISA point I agree it looks doubtful but I think the 90 day window for transfers to ISAs may give some protection (contrast the position for a SIPP).

DRS1

While doing my trawl I found this thread which has an interesting post by @poseidon1 which may help on the bed and ISA thought

Help with the dreaded CGT on shares, some in SAYE scheme, some not - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

DRS1

Now I have found the article which made me think the flexi ISA thing was being stopped

HMRC Warns Savers Over ISA Transfers From SAYE Schemes

I'll keep looking but I may have passed the thing I am looking for now

DRS1

Somebody in this thread confirmed the question you raised at the start about getting pension contribution tax relief on the transfer in if you use a SIPP

Save as you earn SAYE transfer into SIPP — MoneySavingExpert Forum

DRS1

I have officially given up my search. @vacheron may have been the poster who said the flexi ISA thing was still possible and maybe they will be along to confirm if it was.