UKPC Double Dip

MW33

Hello

In advance any advice/help is greatly appreciated.

I'll try and be as brief as possible whilst also trying to ensure I include as much information so as to make my situation understandable.

My wife (registered keeper) received a parking notice from UKPC for an overstay of 10 minutes and 36 seconds in a parking area with a free 2 hour limit.

We are adamant this overstay didn't occur and the only explanation can be 'double dip'

My wife is a member of a gym on the premises which has a separate barrier controlled parking area where she always parks when using the premises, this is also outside the UKPC controlled camera zone.

Myself and my wife share the car although she is the registered keeper. As a result of our sharing when I need use of the car there are numerous times in any week I will drop off my wife and then collect her later, note, the gym entrance and the point I drop off and collect is within the UKPC controlled parking zone

My wife has been a ,member of the gym for years and has never parked in the UKPC controlled zone at any time because there is a separate and safe barrier controlled parking area for members so we can only assume this has to be a double dip error when I have dropped off and picked up. As a point of interest gym visitors can also enter their car registration into a machine at the gym reception area if they park in the controlled area, this would exempt themselves from any charges.

My wife visits virtually every day and we can't even remember what we did on the day in question other than know a visit to the gym was made and I must have dropped off and picked up, visits are so frequent, including several visits in a single day on regular occasions so you can imagine when trying to recall exactly what we did on any particular day all visits blend into one.

We have gone through the usual appeal with UKPC using the accusation of the double dip, including the information I have given here and pointing out the charge is for 36 seconds outside of the the grace period where they should be allowing AT LEAST 10 minutes according to the BPA code of which they are a member.

The appeal has just been refused after 3 back and forth communications and we have been referred to POPLA. In the final communication they asked for evidence of visits which to me suggested they might withdraw the charge if we provided evidence. The evidence I offered to provide was gym membership, they did not comment on my offer, simply just not allowing our appeal and moving to the referral to POPLA stage. I am also thinking POPLA are likely to refuse any appeal due to the limited evidence. My thoughts are down to previous cases I can find online where they seem to only allow 'double dip' appeals when clear evidence of being elsewhere or not parking have been provided, even though I am aware of lots of evidence against UKPC and other parking companies regarding 'double dip' errors meaning in my view POPLA should rule against UKPC based on previous evidence of transgressions and allow my single piece of evidence.

Any advice is greatly appreciated with the main issue for me being that my wife is the opposite to me and would rather pay the charge to avoid all the effort involved to fight it. I am prepared to make the effort as we have not parked in the UKPC controlled area and no charge is due and it is just plain wrong. I have successfully fought a previous charge with Euro Car Parks with your help, it was a lot of effort and stress but thanks to you I won.

My worry is that although I can do all of the work involved and I have to this point, my wife is adamant she would not attend court if it progressed to that stage and although I would be prepared to appear, especially as I was almost certainly the driver, I believe this can only happen at the discretion of the judge and is not guaranteed.

I am obviously interested in your thoughts, many thanks in advance.

Coupon-mad

But no UKPC claims go to court hearings!

MW33

Hello Coupon-mad

Thanks for your prompt response. I do apologise, prior to my post I did search to see if UKPC do go through the small claims process and the general google response was that they did, however, I didn't see any individual evidence of cases where they did that.

I am prepared to do the work to go through the process but I am worried that if this does go as far as the small claims court my wife is adamant she won't go and then if the judge doesn't allow me to appear I will incur the additional charges/costs.

Please may I ask for reassurance, is your response that UKPC don't go to court based on cases you have dealt with on here or do you know this from other information about UKPC. I do apologise but I'm under pressure from my wife who wants to pay this and she will be really annoyed with me if we end up paying a far higher amount because we did the opposite to what she wants to do, I guess in short, a 'told you so' moment.

Many thanks

Gr1pr

What coupon mad actually said was that UKPC cases dont go to court hearings. !

Yes they do issue Money Claims , via DCB Legal

Yes a Money Claim does go to your local civil court for processing , eventually , they all do

But UKPC and DCB LEGAL discontinue before the hearing fee is due, so no fee payment equals no hearing !

Study the 941 discontinued cases in the discontinuations thread by Umkomaas, all discontinued before the hearing ( no need to look elsewhere, that one thread says it all. ! )

As you well know, its the same with ECP , DCB LEGAL cases too

Coupon-mad

"I did search to see if UKPC do go through the small claims process"

That is not what I said! Course they do, but see @Umkomaas' DCB Legal thread.

You said your wife "won't go" to a hearing.

Great! There will never be one.

MW33

Thank you for clarifying Gr1pr, I did think that Coupon-mad meant that UKPC/DCB Legal go through the Money Claim process rather than they didn't go into the Money Claim process and as you say, I am aware of the discontinuation prior to court from my experience with ECP/DCB Legal.

I'm sorry to be a pain but when I did my dozens of hours of research for my previous ECP/DCB Legal case I'm sure I came across more than one example where a DCB legal rep did actually turn up at the small claims court hearing, agreed, I came across loads where they didn't and discontinued. But, my worry is as I have indicated, if they do go this far with me my wife won't attend and I have no guarantee the judge will allow me to. I would be fully prepared to put the work in if it was all down to me but I have that one reservation. In my previous case I also felt I had a good set of circumstances in my favour and a good defence but this time I feel we don't have much other than a history of 'double dip' for UKPC and our denial of parking not based on any solid evidence we have other than in summary, the 'why would I have done' circumstances and knowing we didn't park.

Gr1pr

A very few DCB LEGAL clients do press on to court, so coupon mad has listed them previously ( but not UKPC or ECP as long as the claim is under £600 )

You cannot attend unless the defendant is present, or unless you hired a legal person to represent her ( not recommended due to the cost. )

I think that you both are overthinking it, especially if its only one single pcn invoice. )

Coupon-mad

There have been no UKPC hearings. It was clear what I meant. Nobody said they don't issue claims …but so what? I assume you've now scrolled back through Umkomaas' thread and seen all the UKPC ones.

MW33

Coupon-mad and Gr1pr, thank you both for your responses.

Gr1pr, I agree, I probably am overthinking it but I put that down to the doubt I have due to being unsure if I may have missed anything in the research I have done, or simply not done enough even though I think I have done plenty, hence me asking for your help and I am grateful for any given. I appreciate the specific information you have provided regarding UKPC cases not going to court providing the claim is under £600. This has convinced me to continue with the fight in the knowledge I won't get to the 'told you so' moment I spoke about previously.

Coupon-mad, it was clear what you meant, I apologise if there was any inference in my reply that anything wasn't clear, there was none intended. I have trawled through the Umkomaas thread and I have seen the UKPC ones, this coupled with the information Gr1pr provided has convinced me to continue with the fight so hopefully it will lead me to the point where I can post another discontinuation letter to add to the ever increasing total.

Please can I ask your advice on a couple of other points.

Firstly, do you think it is worth me appealing to POPLA, I think it will probably be a waste of time as I have only seen evidence of them supporting double dip appeals where really convincing evidence is provided which I don't have. I only have what I say must have happened, multiple visits to drop off and collect and that the gym membership/car registration exemption facility and separate member parking would lead to the question of why would we be parking in the UKPC controlled zone and knowing that we never have other than for a short time.

Secondly, do I need to be concerned about what little evidence I have to put into a money claim defence and witness statement or do you think it is enough when placed alongside evidence from previous double dip cases?

Again, thanks in advance.

kryten3000

I would appeal to POPLA:

Put UKPC to proof of the vehicle being on site for the period claimed. Any evidence you have of being elsewhere may be useful but not essential - Google maps timeline for example.

Refer to the Single Code of Practice section 7.3 which has a note about manual checks in relation to double dipping in addition to the requirement that manual checks should be undertaken before issuing any PCN (not that this is ever done).

Use the MINIMUM grace period argument and refer to the recent CMA letter which calls out the practice.

Gr1pr

As above, ( but the appeal is done by the RK, not you, so in their name ) especially if UKPC contest it because the apellant will receive a copy of their ( UKPC. ) evidence pack with good exhibits etc