PureTech engines / motor ombudsman

Smithy99

has anyone had dealings with Stellantis or the motor Ombudsman re the extended puretech warranty scheme? They've refused to fix my car which needs a new engine at just 58,000 miles. They told me to go to the motor ombudsman if I'm unhappy but the motor ombudsman are refusing to accept the complaint saying stellnatis are not accredited accredited with them. I asked if I could make the complaint against Citreon UK as they are acredited with them and although I've been contacting stellantis, responses have come from Citreon, and now they've come back with this

'We do apologise that on this occasion we were unable help you because your vehicle is currently out of its manufacturer’s warranty we wouldn’t be able to raise a complaint against Citroen UK. 
 
Please bear in mind manufacturers are only accredited under new cars meaning we can only look into complaint for vehicle’s covered by its manufacturer warranty.'

but it is a manufacturer warranty? Just an extended one? Ive tried to explain this multiple times and I'm getting no where. Why would stellantis tell me to go to the ombudsman if they can't look into the complaint?

Grumpy_chap

Who did you buy the car from?

Any consumer rights are against the supplier.

Keep_pedalling

Do you have a full service history? How old is the car? If this is a timing belt issue, it should be changed at 60k miles or at 6 years which ever comes first.

paul_c123

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6681321/puretech-engines-motor-ombudsman

If its out of manufacturer's warranty, you have no legal recourse. Its a Consumer Rights Act issue - and it will be an uphill struggle convincing them the fault was present at time of purchase, or its not durable, but its your only recourse now.

Smithy99

bought from a dealership. First noticed an issue with sudden oil drop within 6 mths but that's just my say so, so they've told me to jog on basically saying issue started after 6 months (we have breakdown/garage invoices for after 6 mths). I'm looking into this also but it's obviously more risky and difficult.

Full service history but we didn't know the manufactures guidance re the wet belt had been changed form 10 yrs to 6 so didn't know the belt was overdue a change. Nor were we informed at purchase it was overdue or that the manufacture guidance had been changed after the car was made.

the manufacturers warranty was extended due to issues with PureTech engines.

I saw a financial ombudsman decision with a similar situation saying the cars were clearly not durable enough straight from first being made, but that's of no help if I can't get the motor ombudsman to investigate in the first place.

I'm going to try a section 75 claim but unsure if this any more likely to be successful.

Smithy99

also to add two garages have said it's a compression/failing piston rings issue and that they don't beleive its related to the wet belt. Including a citreon/stellantis approved garage

Woodstok2000

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6681321/puretech-engines-motor-ombudsman

You're saying it is under warranty, clearly Stellantis disagree, or believe the warranty doesn't apply, what was their reasoning for refusing your warranty claim?

Mildly_Miffed

So your belt is overdue on time, and imminent on mileage. On Puretechs, it's a quick and easy job to change - unlike Ford Ecoboosts. Wet belt failure is ALMOST ALWAYS due to inadequate prior servicing - wrong oil, too long intervals.

But your belt hasn't failued? It sounds more like you've got the piston ring/oil consumption problem, and the belt's fine. Again, inadequate servicing - wrong oil, too long intervals - exacerbated by driving style - short journeys and only ever being pootled.

daveyjp

Basic research on vehicles is now so easy everyone should do it on any vehicle they are considering.

Chatgpt - tell me of any known issues with a Puretech engine:

The response.

Yes — some Citroën PureTech engines have had serious and well-documented reliability problems, particularly the 1.2-litre PureTech petrol engines from the earlier generations.

The important thing is that not every PureTech is equally problematic, and the engine's year/version matters a lot.

The main problems

1. Wet timing-belt degradation — the big one

Many 1.2 PureTech engines use a timing belt that runs inside the engine oil ("wet belt"). On affected engines, the belt can deteriorate prematurely. Pieces of belt can contaminate the oil system and restrict the oil pickup, potentially causing low oil pressure and, in severe cases, major engine damage.

Citroën/Stellantis explicitly acknowledges premature timing-belt degradation and has introduced extended coverage for affected engines. 

2. Excessive oil consumption

Certain 1.2 PureTechs have also suffered from excessive oil consumption. Stellantis' support programme specifically covers excessive oil consumption, with different affected engine generations having different underlying causes, including piston-ring and oil-separator issues. 

3. Potentially very expensive consequences

The belt and oil-consumption problems aren't merely minor annoyances. If oil pressure is lost or the engine is badly damaged, you can end up looking at a replacement/rebuilt engine rather than a routine repair.

How serious does Citroën/Stellantis consider it?

Quite significant, actually. This isn't just internet folklore.

Stellantis introduced an extended warranty for certain previous-generation 1.0 and 1.2 PureTech engines, covering 100% of parts and labour for up to 10 years/112,000 miles (180,000 km), subject to conditions. It subsequently introduced a compensation programme for owners who had already paid for qualifying repairs. 

That's a pretty strong indication that the problem was genuine and widespread.

But there's an important distinction

If you're considering buying a Citroën with a PureTech engine, don't automatically reject it.

I'd want to know:

• Exact engine: 1.0 or 1.2?
• Turbo or non-turbo?
• Year of manufacture/registration
• Exact model — C3, C4, C3 Aircross, C5 Aircross etc.
• Mileage
• Whether the timing belt has been replaced
• Whether there's a complete service history with the correct oil
• Whether the car is covered by the relevant Stellantis support programme

The affected ranges are quite specific. For example, Stellantis' current UK documentation identifies 1.2 turbo engines produced from April 2014 to June 2022 for the timing-belt/oil-pressure issue, while certain oil-consumption problems extend into later production. 

If you're looking at a particular Citroën, give me the model, year, engine (e.g. 1.2 PureTech 130), mileage and price.I can tell you whether I'd consider that particular engine a "buy", "buy only with precautions", or "avoid", and what to check before handing over your money.

Alanp

do you have legal cover on your insurance policy?, might be worth checking and see if they can help….

Smithy99

good point re insurance. They said they wouldn't help until the Ombudsman had been done but as they wont take it maybe I could go back to them, thanks!

The car was serviced every year within stellantis/Citreon guidance re timings . It was used for a lot of short journeys. You buy a car you assume it will manage any normal journeys you need! If a car can't mange lots of short journeys I'd also say it's not durable enough for the job it's made for. It's certainly not an issue I've experienced with any previous car we've owned and in fact we did a lot more miles in this car than previous cars.

I did extensive research on the car just not specifically the engine type within it so the whole puretech thing didn't come up. I doubt many people google about the specific engine type in car to be fair. Anything I read re wet belts was just they must be done in line with manufacturers guidance or ot may cause engine failure. The same could be said for nay car. I doubt many people google whether manufacturers guidance on a car changed since it was made either.

stellantis refusing as the belt wasn't replaced at 6 years. We didn't own the car then, had no way of knowing the original guidance had changed.