MK1 Parking bad signage appeal

NotABotOfPeople

I've just got an NTK about parking in MK1 similar to that in MK1 parking ltd — MoneySavingExpert Forum

The irony is that I needed a driving break so I would probably have paid the £4 it seems to be but I genuinely didn't see a sign! I parked there one evening after driving around the car park closer to the Odeon (with its prominent "Maximum stay 4 hours" sign facing you as you drive in) and not finding a space, then driving into the next nearly-empty section and not seeing any other sign, so I thought it was part of the same car park. I thought people were just filling the nearest car park first, but I did think it odd that so few people were parked the other side of the kerb.

I feel it's easy to see how I didn't see the different signs, as the only sign passed seems to be behind a small tree, on the left side of the car as we negotiated a mini-roundabout, turned facing away from our approach, unlit and fixed to a streetlight on the kerb of Stadium Way W, rather than at the side of the car park entrance where I think you'd expect to see it. The sign front was not captured on my forward-facing dashcam at all. The entry picture on the NTK even confirms that the "entrance" signs are more than a car length sideways away from the entrance and facing in silly directions IMO.

Even if I'd seen a sign, it looks from photos in the other topic that the entrance signs might not conform to the current Private Parking Sector Single Code of Practice in other ways, which require a phrase like "No free parking" to appear before and more prominently than vague legalistic wibble like "Private land". Does anyone have a recent sign photo so I can check that without driving all the way back there, please?

Other than that one, the sign to the right of the entrance is positioned and angled like it applies to the road rather than the car park, there's no markings across the entrance and there's no sign in front of you as you drive in. All of that can be confirmed as still current from the photos on my NTK. The photos in the other topic also suggest that the signs in the car park are mounted above the height of dipped headlights, I suspect they're non-reflective and why would I expect them to be different to the ones I'd already seen in the first bit of the car park anyway? And finally, it's easy to walk out of the bit of car park nearest the entrance towards the Odeon without passing any prominent sign, as you'd only pass the one by the tree on the pavement, which has a blank grey back instead of any terms, prices or payment instructions.

I'll be appealing primarily on the basis of the signs being insufficiently visible from the direction I entered from, but I'd welcome any advice on this before I do so. I've seen the blue template in the NEWBIES topic. I think some of it might not be useful because MK1 do at least include an allegation and images of the vehicle, but not the sign. The "Contravention" is "Unapid Parking" so does the grace period matter?

Will challenging them to produce an image of the ignored sign use up the in-house appeal and send me to POPLA as the only chance of challenging the sign visibility? Would I be better to challenge the sign visibility at the in-house appeal?

Car1980

For non-payments I always think it's a good idea to just pay the amount via the app. If you can manage that I would then email them and tell them their signage is inadequate and the first you knew about having to pay to park was their letter. Therefore, as a goodwill gesture, you have paid the £4 shortfall via the app. See screenshot attached.

And leave it at that. Ignore the debt collection threatograms.

If they did ever try a court claim (can't find any record from this lot), you can then defend from a position of paying late due to their crap signage, rather than any refusal to pay.

NotABotOfPeople

Looking on StreetView, it looks like I will actually have walked past signs for the other (free for 4 hours) car park as I used the pavement on the way to the Odeon building. I don't remember whether I actually read one, as seeing a free-parking sign a few weeks ago isn't particularly memorable.

Is there anything requiring a car park operator to put at least one sign facing the pedestrian exit route from a car park? Especially where you will walk past another car park's signs. Could this be why there's no price list and payment instruction on the back of the sign on the Stadium Way W lamppost nearest the Odeon?

NotABotOfPeople

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82116930#Comment_82116930

I don't have the RingGo app, but another person in the car does. I'll ask them to try this evening.

I suspect this is a FAQ but I didn't see it in the Newbies topic. Will the debt collection threats harm my credit checks, or only if it gets to a CCJ against me?

NotABotOfPeople

I've contacted the restaurant chain's customer service address, giving the reference number on the bill, to ask them to tell MK1 to fix their signs and cancel the charge. Autoreply says 3-5 days for a full reply. I doubt it'll work, but it wasn't much effort, compared with trying to find the relevant person at the retail park management.

Coupon-mad

"Will the debt collection threats harm my credit checks, or only if it gets to a CCJ against me?"

Neither happens. They can't just "get a CCJ"

Obviously, scam letters about an unfair invoice from a rogue sector don't affect credit rating

NotABotOfPeople

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6681175/mk1-parking-bad-signage-appeal

Another irony is that closer inspection of the evidence photo shows I wasn't driving. Sheesh, I was tired that day! I did still need a break then, clearly.

Anyway, appeal form submitted to MK1, uploading a copy of the code of practice PDF as part of the evidence. I fully expect to be making the same argument to POPLA but maybe giving them a point-by-point explanation of how their signs are defective will persuade MK1 to save everyone's time and money and just cancel the charge immediately!

NotABotOfPeople

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82125070#Comment_82125070

I know they don't simply get a CCJ.

It might be obvious to you, but in all the many years I've been driving, I've not been the target of this rogue sector before, so I genuinely didn't know!