Used car with undisclosed faults! How to proceed? Return & full refund vs Keep & partial refund

Simon321

Hi
I hope I can find some advice here.
Sorry for the long text in advance!

I bought a used 2017 car from an independent dealer.
After using it the last 24 days I discovered some issues I wasn't aware of.
I am undecided if I should try returning the vehicle for a full refund or if I should ask for a discount.
I am not very experienced with buying cars (this is just my second car in the last 30years) and I am not sure what my rights are and what's best to do.
The dealer has very good full star reviews, trading since almost 20y, so I was a bit off-guard and I feel very stupid not discovering all these faults beforehand. I was also a bit distracted having my 9y with me when having a look.

Some details:
- Purchased about 24 days ago
- Purchase price about 8k, paid with Debit Card
- Mileage 111000

What I discovered when having a look at the car/ before purchase test drive:
- Driver door resprayed
- Oil leak (supposedly fixed)
- Some scratches (normal for the age)
- Rear brakes a bit worn
- Worn interior (more worn than usual for the age)

What I now discovered after using it during our holiday and after bringing it to a car wash:
- The car is basically filled with body filler on at least 4 panels (doors and wings) and resprayed all way round
- The windscreen was replaced at some point to a bad standard
- The cabin air is not getting hot (big issue)
- Still ongoing oil leak
- Floor mats and wheel locking nuts missing (it was advertised with)
- Rear ambient lights not working
- Some other wear and tear on the interior I missed
I am not completely sure but I also suspect the service book is not accurate/altered, at least the service history mileage registered online does not match the service mileage in the book, but the stamp matches the dealership location. Later service stamps are generic stamps with the mileage matching exactly the annual mot test mileage (which is also a bid odd as some of these mot tests failed).

Other things to consider:
- Since purchase I drove about 1600 miles (mainly taking it home from dealer + family holiday).
- Re purchase price, as I needed the car for our family holiday (I told the dealer about it) I got a discount of £800 for the cambelt and water pump replacement (which was due and would have been included in the advertised price) and my discovered issues (resprayed driver door, rear brakes)
- Before buying the car, the dealer convinced and assured me the oil leak was fixed, he said all this oil on the engine block is old, from the previous now fixed leak and he also left a handwritten note about this on the some weeks old most recent MOT certificate (which mentioned a minor oil leak advisory).
- Before I bought a train ticket (almost 2h journey) I asked about the oil leak mentioned in the MOT test and asked about any other issues I should be aware of. He called me and said the leak is fixed and there are no other issues. He also offered to give me a lift from the train station (in hindsight this also left me vulnerable). During the ride I mentioned my old car I had to sell because a lorry scraped the whole driver side. Although I was not directly asking, he did not mention any similar previous damage (body filler/resprayed) on the car I am interested in. This would have been a good situation to do so.
- As there was/is a heat wave I did not test the hot cabin air, only the aircon. I only realised there is no hot air after being up north, driving in the night.
- The car was a bit dusty when at the dealership (farm/countryside), I only saw it was resprayed all the way round after the car wash, actually the car washer made me aware of it and I tested the bodywork with a magnet just now.

Many thanks for reading so far!

Now the car is parked and I am not using it anymore.
Ideally I would like to make use of my consumer rights and return the car for a full refund if possible.
I am not sure the seller will agree to this and I might have to go the small claims route which could take a long time, the car would be sitting on the street, I have to pay for parking, tax and insurance and I couldn't use the car (I also would need it for work) and I used all my savings - I couldn't afford to buy another car in the meantime.
My partner says I should give the dealer two options, either me returning the car for a full refund, or me keeping the car but asking for a partial refund/discount reflecting the needed repairs and the permanent loss of value of all the hidden body damage (filler/resprayed).I did some research, the repair work alone would be £1480-1730. I am not sure about the loss of value for all the hidden body damage, at least half of the car is resprayed and at least four panels got body filler, so would be at least a 15-25% reduction of value.
To be really "happy" I would need to ask for a partial refund of £2500, is this realistic?
I was planning to keep the car for a long time and invest in it (I strongly believe in fixing things rather than buying new), but with all this body damage it is not very attractive to throw money at it in the next years.

What would you do?
How realistic are my two options (returning the car + full refund or keeping it + partial refund)?
How to proceed?
Is it an issue that I drove so many miles?
How to prove all these issues I am not happy with? Should I go to a garage to get faults in writing (my regular garage is fully booked for at least two weeks), and if so what should they write?
How does it work with DVLA (V5 logbook) tax, insurance? Do I still have to continue paying for it if I told the dealer I would like to return the vehicle under the consumer rights act?
What if he refuses?
How to proceed if he accepts?
Other options or any other advice?

I am very stressed about this whole situation, also time is running out.
I definitely learned my lesson :(

Many many thanks for any answers!!
Simon

caprikid1

It's a nine year old car with 110,000 miles, the consumer rights act is not about buyers remorse.

Even the oil leak may be consider commensurate with age and miles but thats the one I would go back on.

I think any dealer will not be giving you a refund or allow rejection on this car.

Vitor

I think you need to separate the genuine faults from the fact that this is a nine-year-old car with 111,000 miles.

Your strongest points are the continuing oil leak, especially as you specifically asked about it and were told it had been fixed, and the lack of cabin heating. If the service history was materially misrepresented, that could also be important.

I would be much less confident about claiming a 15–25% loss in value because several panels have filler or have been resprayed. Unless the car was advertised as accident-free, original paint, etc, previous body repairs on a car of this age and mileage do not automatically amount to a fault or misdescription.

As you are still within 30 days, if you genuinely want rid of the car I would concentrate on the significant faults and formally exercise the short-term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The 1,600 miles does not automatically prevent rejection.

I would also get an independent garage to document the oil leak and heating fault.

I would not start by demanding £2,500 based on repair estimates plus an assumed percentage loss in value. That risks weakening what may otherwise be a reasonably straightforward case.

Decide first whether you actually want to reject the car or keep it. If you want rejection, act promptly and put it in writing.

Simon321

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102048#Comment_82102048

Thanks for your comment. I am aware the car is 9y old with 110k miles. I asked the dealer about the oil leak and the dealer said it has been fixed. I asked the dealer about any other issues, and he told me there are none, unfortunately in person and not in writing. Regarding the body damage repair with filler and resprayed, yes a 9y 110k car most likely will have some repair done or some damage but not to this extend, basically the whole way round, and this information was not disclosed (obviously) - which is not right. Also you can consider the lack of hot cabin air not safe in winter, not being able to defrost/clear the windscreen etc.

Simon321

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102050#Comment_82102050

Hi, thanks for your comment.

Yes, you're right. My ideal is to return the car as there is no value to it keeping it and spending more money the next years.
Asking £2500 off would be for repairs and loss included, but yes, it is not very realistic the dealer would agree to this.

Re body damage, I don't think covered up/repaired body damage all way round, more than 50%, is normal for a 9y 110k car and withholding this information is not right, especially after I told him about my previous car and after I discovered the driver door was resprayed.

I will most likely go the return route, I just need to figure out how to proceed, my legal standing and what could happen and what not

Aylesbury_Duck

What evidence do you have that the dealer knew about and withheld the extent of the body damage? In any case, if the repairs are structurally sound and it's passed an MOT since, what's the problem?

I think you've got an uphill struggle on this one. From the dealer's perspective, it might look like you've used the car for your holiday and now don't want it any more.

sheenas

The most likely is the oil leak and heat system. You would need to report the issues immediately and give the a chance to repair them. Rejecting the car might be a bit of a stretch imho

Simon321

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102132#Comment_82102132

Thanks for your comment.
Do I need evidence? Do I need to proof this? If a car dealer handles cars for almost 20y, I am sure he knows about all the cars flaws, at least the flaws like this. I am not a professional dealing with cars but if it would be, I would be offended not to spot such issues. It's not about passing the MOT, it's also about the value of the car, paying for repairs (especially oil leak and hot cabin air). I would have never bought this car in this condition, especially not for this price, and the dealer was not honest, clearly withheld information and convinced me the oil leak is not fixed. Also a dealer friendly MOT garage can give whatever MOT, this is very common

Aylesbury_Duck

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102166#Comment_82102166

Focus on the items where you have a chance of getting somewhere. Yes you would need evidence that a dealer misled you or knowingly withheld information about bodywork damage that hadn't been repaired to a satisfactory or safe standard. As it stands, you have no idea they knew of it, or whether it's a problem.

At the moment it sounds like you're chucking around all sorts of problems, real and invented, because you've realised you didn't do all this due diligence before you bought the car.

Simon321

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102257#Comment_82102257

It seems like you're a car dealer. From a consumer perspective I definitely feel mislead. Like I wrote, the dealer also told me the oil leak is fixed and it clearly isn't. Back then I wasn't sure, I questioned it and he persuaded me.
Also why should I not use the car for our family holiday, this doesn't make any sense at all. I believed I bought a nice car until I discovered all the issues. This is all quite stressful, this is not something I do for fun and I don't have time for this. Actually why should I explain myself? Would you think differently if I would be an elderly woman?

Buying a used car is complex and a buyer can't think about everything, also you wish/hope a trustworthy dealer is telling you about ANY issues the dealer knows. He could have told me about the resprayed door when I asked before I even booked the train! I used to sell many used items on ebay/2nd hand markets, and I was always honest, if I didn't know about an items condition (eg some vintage computers) I sold it according to that. A car dealer, especially a small one, knows exactly about their stock, you can't deny this, especially if the car is in the dealers possession since more than six weeks and the dealer (being much more experienced) purchased the car first hand.

Aylesbury_Duck

"It seems like you're a car dealer."

Ah, that tired old accusation whenever anyone gets an opinion they don't want to hear. I'm too busy at Currys, Ryanair, Sports Direct, John Lewis and all the other places I apparently work for.

"From a consumer perspective I definitely feel mislead. Like I wrote, the dealer also told me the oil leak is fixed and it clearly isn't. Back then I wasn't sure, I questioned it and he persuaded me."

And that's a significant point that probably gives you grounds for rejection, so focus on that. All the stuff about panels and filler is a distraction.

"Also why should I not use the car for our family holiday, this doesn't make any sense at all. I believed I bought a nice car until I discovered all the issues. This is all quite stressful, this is not something I do for fun and I don't have time for this. Actually why should I explain myself? Would you think differently if I would be an elderly woman?"

1. I was posing something the dealer might think was the case and might use in their argument against you if it got to court.
2. You will have to explain yourself if it gets to the point where it goes to court.
3. What has your age or gender got to do with it? So as well as accusing me of being a car dealer, I'm now ageist and sexist? Nice.

And with that, I'm out. Best not to jump on anyone else who offers challenge to your view to help you position your argument, else you'll be in an echo chamber of "ok, hun" type stuff which is available on facebook and the like.