Mid-Terraced Ex-Council House - "Shared" Passageway

WIAWSNB

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82101550#Comment_82101550

Thanks. I understand flying freehold, but the lack of deeds info made this a surprise to me. How would this normally be shown on the neighb's deeds map?

It does explain, tho', why the new neighb might think that the boundary betwixt them runs down t'middle - coupled with a less-than-efficient conveyancing solicitor who should ideally have explained the situation. But, even if the neighb innocently assumed this, they should still have realised the effect of what they were doing, and the ultimate consequence if the JC did the same. That ain't a wide passageway, so I'm surprised that a bike only consumes around 20% of the width? Mine would block it…

Good luck, JC - not quite sure what you'll be dealing with; whether merely thoughtless, or a lot worse… 😉

silvercar

When the houses were built, it would have been deemed fairer than making some houses have smaller upstairs. No thought was necessary to ownership as the whole terrace would have been owned by the council. It's only when the great sell off of council homes occurred that these deeds were drawn up. I suspect some councils mark the dividing line straight down the middle with each having access rights over the other sides share of the passageway; that at least would avoid flying freehold issues.

Round here, a lot of these type of terraces don't have a central passageway; instead each mid terrace has a right of access through the rear garden of their neighbouring end of terrace. This creates its own issues.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82101555#Comment_82101555

Thanks. I understand flying freehold, but the lack of deeds info made this a surprise to me. How would this normally be shown on the neighb's deeds map?

It could be useful if @Land_Registry is able to give a definitive answer on current practice, but AIUI in the past there may be nothing shown on a title plan, or it could be a tinted area with text somewhere to explain what this means.

This is another example of where a literal interpretation of a 'general boundary' is risky - thinking of another boundary/access thread the other day - because title plans aren't necessarily 100% accurate. The concept of a 'general boundary' means some additional thinking/checks have to be made if you intend to do something which impacts on ownership/rights of the neighbour.

florianatwobob

I have a shared alley with my neighbour and our houses interlock over the alley with their house hanging over the back half and ours over the front half.

When we bought from the council (next door had bought previously) there was some faff around access rights and the possibility of creating a flying freehold but it was ultimately resolved to joint responsibility for maintenance and joint access which was standard for our council’s arrangements

I have a copy of the paperwork before it was lodged with the land registry which proved useful when next door wanted to dig up and change the shared path to match their ‘drive’ but only as far as the alley entrance (would have looked awful) as I pointed out that we were 50% liable for the maintenance cost and their solution would also need to be harmonious with our house and their choice…. wasn’t.

As they also have an aversion to using their front door and only use the back door which is right on the alley boundary it was a useful reminder that we have equal access and use of the alley.

otb666

I was wondering how do you put your bins out past the neighbours stuff in alley way. I think you need to point out its not a storage facility and if you matched neighbours stuff it would get cluttered and you could hurt yourself. I have @Land_Registry as they are super helpful.

Section62

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102346#Comment_82102346

I think you need to point out its not a storage facility

OP needs to confirm this before telling the neighbour what they can and can't do. You'd expect the neighbour to only have the right to pass and repass, but sometimes our expectations can be wrong.

Jerry_Cornelius

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102346#Comment_82102346

Funnily enough one of my concerns was the bins; not the green/black bins as they are kept out the front anyway (Think all my neighbours do as well) but i was considering getting a brown bin and that would stay in the back garden so would need access regularly … but I think just generally its a bit off to treat it as a storage area, and potentially limit access when I need it …

Land_Registry

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102346#Comment_82102346

The title plan for each property will show the registered extent and general boundaries by a red outline, as you already know. OP states the red outline includes the passageway

The register would refer to any granted or reserved easements (rights) so for example the deed that refers to the right for others over the passageway (tinted yellow) is I assume on the register as well. If it is it's likely it's on next door's as well

A flying freehold, if registered, would be referred to on the registers and a reference included on the respective title plans. For example "As to the part tinted blue………only the first floor is included in ……." and a corresponding "…..only the ground floor is included in……" on the next door's register

As far as to what extent the neighbour's actions are above and beyond or hampering the granted rights and/or are contrary to any rights of ownership can be tricky if things are not permanently in place. If there's an issue with a neighbour then the best advice is usually to think about why they are doing what they are, what the problems are for you and what alternatives are there for them - with any problem finding and sharing a possible solution tends to land more positively but of course that all depends on the parties involved.

And I would always recommend seeking legal advice to consider what rights you both have and what options exists especially with regards any suggested solutions and what impact they or any rejection of the idea might have

sherlock228

the nub of this thread seems to be :

a) you probably do have the legal right to dictate what happens in the passageway
b) you have little or no relationship with your (newish) neighbour

try making friends and talking about it instead of jumping on the legal bandwagon?
the ladder rack reduces their ability to use the passage as much as it does yours, but they got in first….

Albermarle

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82102618#Comment_82102618

Plus

c) As the neighbour has access, and the two buildings adjoin at the mid point above the alley, they will naturally have come to the conclusion that half of the alleyway is theirs, and will be oblivious to what the title deeds say.