UKPC - Notice of Debt Recovery letter

SmithySue

Hi, I borrowed my sons LWB vehicle and parked in an ASDA car park a month ago. The rear of the vehicle overhung the parking bay line.
30 days later my son, the registered keeper, receives a Notice of Debt Recovery from UKPC Ltd stating they had written previously and as he never replied he no longer has the right to appeal and the original Parking Charge Amount of £100 and an Addition Charge £70 is now due, total £170, payable within 7 days.
This is the first and only letter my son has received in this matter. No windscreen ticket was issued, nothing until now 30 days later.
I understand as members of BPA they have to send a NTK to be received within 14 days which he never received.

I do not dispute the vehicle was over the line, they have provided online photos to that effect, although I am miffed because I deliberately parked in an area of the car park where there where very few cars because it was a LWB vehicle (campervan)

Should I go to ASDA and ask them to cancel the ticket, if so who do I contact, in store or head office or is it pointless as they are just one of several large stores sharing that same car park ?

Regarding the missing NTK I understand that POPLA & BPA guidelines state UKPC have to show proof their NTK entered the postal system and not just that a letter was printed or given to a 3rd party to send. ie they have to show proof of postage from Royal Mail / a Carrier ? And then it is presumed to be delivered 3 working days later. Is that correct ?

I don't believe they ever sent an NTK and have deliberately waited 30 days and gone straight to the £170 charge.

By not receiving the NTK they have deprived me of paying the reduced £60 charge for early settlement - which is probably why they do it.

I have tried calling UKPC but all appeals/correspondence must be done online. Is it worth submitting an appeal to NTK online asking for proof of postage from Royal Mail and offering to pay the reduced rate £60 ?

Any advice how to proceed is most welcome
thanks

Gr1pr

You are NOT the data subject, so currently you have no legal liability and are a stranger to the case

So you haven't been deprived of anything and they should not be talking to you

I dont think that its anything to do with Asda, because its probably a retail park, not an Asda car park

Ignore the debt recovery letters, they are powerless

Your son ( the RK. ) should check that the V5c log book has his current address on it because the NTK PCN letter went to the address that Ukpc obtained from the dvla database. It definitely went somewhere

If you want your son to extract himself from the situation then he can name the driver, with their address and transfer liability from himself to that driver ( in writing, usually by email. )

Ukpc would then have to write to you as the named driver, where you can deal with it as you see fit

Under POFA 2012 , if used, the NTK PCN letter must arrive within 14 days to the address obtained from the dvla database, nothing to do with being a BPA AOS member, but the law, Pofa2012, which is not mandatory

A letter is presumed to be delivered 2 business days after posting ( not 3. )

If Pofa2012 is not being invoked, or doesn't apply, then the private parking company claimant involved has 7 months to obtain keeper details and to get the pcn to the keeper, to the address listed on the DVLA database

So has he moved and not updated the details on the DVLA database. ?

SmithySue

I am dealing with it as it was my fault and I will pay any charge if I have to. If my son names me as the driver, will the charge still stand at £170 to me or will I be given the option to pay the discounted charge £60 ?

My son moved address 2 years ago so I will ask him to check the DVLA record for the vehicle. If it is out of date how did they manage to send this letter to his new address ? The buyer of his old house does not have his new address.

So for info, they do not need to provide Proof of Postage it entered the postal system, they can just say they posted it and that is accepted by POPLA if it went to appeal ?

Gr1pr

You cannot deal with it UNTIL he names you as driver to UKPC, only when you receive paperwork in your own name can you deal with it

UKPC should then issue the £100 PCN to you at your address as the named driver, absolving the keeper liability under POFA 2012 due to him transferring liability to you, then you can deal with it

The charge is never more than £100, despite debt recovery adding on the spurious unenforceable £70

I suspect that he failed to update his V5c log book address promptly, which can incur up to a £1000 actual fine via magistrates court if the dvla were to prosecute him, ditto with his driving licence too, so he better check or update both ASAP ( its the most common reason for missing paperwork and CCJ's. )

Addresses are easily traced by credit reference agencies and debt collectors, costing less than 50p , its irrelevant how they did it, not worth spending any time on

Ukpc would submit an evidence pack to popla, if an appeal was made to popla, but its too late for that option for your son, no chance of a popla code so no chance of a popla appeal

Ideally you follow plan A in the newbies sticky thread in announcements near the top of the forum by coupon mad and COMPLAIN about it to the Retail park management company or landlord or landowner ASAP ( not Asda , not if its a retail park, because Asda use Parking Eye, not UKPC. Ukpc infest many retail parks )

Ukpc would issue a court claim against him via DCB Legal in the future if nothing is done

My advice is concentrate on the relevant, concentrate on the facts, not assumptions, if you are going to assume, then assume that UKPC did obtain keeper details from the DVLA database and posted the NTK PCN letter promptly to that address they obtained.

SmithySue

So if my son writes to the retail park management company and complains, asking them to cancel the PCN, what will UKPC do in the mean time as their letter states "If full payment is not made within 7 days of the date of this letter we will pass this matter to our external debt recovery agents and legal action through the County Courts will be taken at which point … "

Should my son also go on UKPC website and confirm he is the keeper but not the driver at the time of this alleged offence, or even just state that he did not received the first letter they referred to and ask for the address they sent it to - to delay them progressing it further until he has a response from the retail management company ?

thanks

Gr1pr

Nothing happens at the debt recovery stage, ignore their deadlines

Definitely complain about it to the retail park management company, preferably with proof of patronage etc

He could ask UKPC, but they may ignore his requests

Its currently an unregulated industry, the wild West

Plan A if you both want a quick resolution, the complaint, but if you want to deal with it, he names you as the driver, name and address, using Pofa2012 to transfer liability from the keeper to the driver

Coupon-mad

You realise all defended UKPC claims are discontinued at no cost and with no hearing? You saw @Umkomaas' thread? Over 900 examples including lots of UKPC cases.

Your son needs to update that V5C because he hasn't, has he? Big mistake.

Did you not yet read the official MSE Guide to Private Parking Tickets, linked at the top of the page by the banner? It tells you all this already and about the danger of letting a PPC hold two addresses.

You'll never pay a penny but decide now if he or you would be best placed to defend and see out a DCB Legal claim. If that's him leave it in his name but he must tell UKPC to 'ERASE THE OLD ADDRESS'.

SmithySue

It is looking more than likely that my son did not update the V5C address when he moved 2 years ago. The issue is compounded because his current home is undergoing massive alterations and he & family have moved out to temporary accommodation until it becomes habitable again. He has put everything in storage including all paperwork ie; the V5C. So I have to assume it was not updated and he can't get to it so he can a) check or b) update it.

That seems to me there are only 2 options available.
A. appeal to the retail park management company asking them to cancel the charge
B. for my son to disclose I was the driver, I will then receive a £100 PCN and I pay it off at the reduced £60 rate.

Otherwise it will drag my son into a legal to-fro with DBCL which he is almost certainly not going to want to do for a PCN he had nothing to do with and with potentially two V5c address' complicating matters until he can update the V5c.

So I assume my best route is option A and if failed option B ?

James_Poisson

If he discloses that you were the driver it will not drag him in to "legal to-fro with DBCL".

You have been informed that a defended case will be discontinued why do you want to pay a greedy scammer called Rupert who pays himself in excess of £1.5million a year off the backs of these scams?

Your son needs to update his V5C now no silly excuses, the fine for not doing so could be far far in excess of this up to £1000 if caught.

Gr1pr

Not only that, by not having a monitored address he could be picking up numerous charges that he knows nothing about, so ones like an NIP, bus lane charges, Dart, TfL, or similar charges, council penalty notices , Warburton Bridge or Tyne Tunnel UTCN charges, train station notices, more private parking company charges, the list is endless

He should go onto the DVLA website ASAP and charge the address to one where he can pick up mail weekly, maybe your address for now, any serviceable address will do, ditto with driving licences etc

He could incur a default CCJ at an unmonitored old address , and the DVLA could bring about £1000 fines for not updating the serviceable address

Seriously, he needs to get those ducks in a row, also sort out plan A, then name you as driver before any legal proceedings start

But do ignore debt recovery, apart from keeping all the players updated with a serviceable address for the service of papers

SmithySue

Exactly, by stating I was the driver it removes my son from the issue, they then come after me for the charge.

As for silly excuses .. excuse me ?? who do you think you are talking like that ?

I have been very polite throughout this thread as have the other posters, of which I am very appreciate of their advice. I don't need comments like that from anyone.

If you can't respond politely don't respond at all.

For your info, he is in temporary accommodation over 150 miles away from his home so getting access to the V5c to check or update is not possible.