Section 75 claim - disposal of car

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82086075#Comment_82086075

For a car you would sell it to a salvage merchant

In principle they could give it to staff, though who's going to want a condemned car? A former client used to hold an annual auction of claims salvage, given they aim at high net worth individuals it was often things like Hermes scarfs or a single diamond earing etc with proceeds being given to charity. Another more run of the mill insurer used to auction them off too but via an external third party.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

I'm sure @A_Geordie has said should there be a Section 75 claim which is refunded that doesn't mean the goods belong to the bank when they refund, instead the bank should go after the trader for their loss.

As OP has said CRA says to return the goods to the trader if agreed, otherwise make available for collection so OP appears to have fulfilled their obligations under the CRA.

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089789#Comment_82089789

Sadly they can't. As breaks company B/C rules & leaves company open to problems. If a customer sends stuff in to a rep for good service. We do not get it for same reason. But it can be shared round dept. Go figure.

A_Geordie

That is correct.

Nothing in the CCA or s75 or any court cases that I'm aware of, gives the creditor ownership of the goods if they pay out a claim made against them. The extent of a creditor's rights under s75 is to recover those sums paid from the trader and that's it.

The well established nemo dat rule applies, which is that no person other than the owner, can transfer legal title/ownership of goods to another.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089984#Comment_82089984

But surely the liability would be the value of the goods less the value of the salvage? Obviously dead freezer then the salvage is probably a liability rather than asset but other than a cat A car, which has to be crushed, any car has a residual value even if its only good for breaking.

Appreciate not the CCA but its the same in my world, we pay you the preloss value less the salvage value, though in some cases we will offer to buy the salvage from you at cost.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089982#Comment_82089982

Not sure what the company B/C rules are

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82090001#Comment_82090001

Bribery & Corruption. 👍

Any gift/product has to be reported & if over a certain low amount leads to a massive amount of paper work. Which ends with a "No way are you having that"

Which is why I refer to joining bonus as a bribe.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82090013#Comment_82090013

What values of gifts do you have to declare? Have to say that after leaving a company owned by a bank the values have gone up a lot… plus there are two layers, a value that has to be declared but not approved and a second layer that must be approved before receipt. When I was in a bank owned insurer it was something like £25 and £100 but many years on and now not a bank owned insurer its £250 and £1,000

I knew an ex boss who used to send back free pens etc as to avoid the potential risk on receiving gifts, which was clearly OTT. On the flipside in my last perm job there everyone in marketing was sent probably about £100 of gifts from the agencies and something better for the directors and never saw them complete the forms… reception was full of the boxes as there was a small army in marketing. Got mistaken by one agency and got a box too.

The policy would only applies to external gifts not to the gifts the company themselves give you, which is what you would be talking about here. Back in the bank they used to give a half decent gift at 10, 25 and 50 years service but then change that to entries into a prize draw for a 3 year lease car, one entry per year of service over 9 years.

If the company receives salvage its their property to do what they want with it, I've known both internal auctions and external auctions. In my claims days only occasionally got salvage and most went straight in the bin but knew bosses to give one or two things away but thats not a present from the customer but from the company so outside the ABC policy.

born_again

It's a PIA & as such banks policy for S75 is they do not want anything back after payout. So solves any issues for them, as far as disposing of items.

A_Geordie

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82089996#Comment_82089996

Section 75(2) says this:

Liability is not limited to just value of the goods and can depend on what the claim is for. The Consumer Rights Act has pre-defined remedies up to full refund of the value amount. In the case of cars, a reasonable amount can be deducted for use but if there was no 'real' use due to the car constantly being faulty and being towed back to the dealership/garage, then it can be argued no deduction for use should be applied. Outside consumer statutory remedies, the courts take a similar approach which is usually to deduct an amount for use if it was appropriate to do so.

There are other methods of calculation available under common law rules since the deduction for use may not be appropriate in all cases. For example if car was of significant value, then the difference in value method might be applied, depending on the facts.

For s75 creditors, in addition to the payout of the amount relating to the goods, their recoverable losses could also include, time spent investigating the dispute, costs of seeking outside legal advice, costs in relation to any legal proceedings issued, third party reports and any other incidentals relating to the dispute. I don't actually know whether creditors actually pursue these costs against traders but there have been a few instances where s75 creditors have added traders as a second defendant to legal proceedings and invoking s75(2) so that any judgment against them would be recoverable against the trader.

Note the words "subject to any agreement" so the s75 creditor and trader can come to a different agreement such has handing ownership of the goods over to the creditor, but it's not automatic.