Section 75 claim - disposal of car

Docspod

I bought a car last year. After several months I discovered it had been sold with multiple faults. Dealer collected car for inspection under Consumer Righhts Act in February. I instigated a Section 75 claim at the same time.

After much prevarication by the dealer, they finally responded in June after considerable pressure from Section 75, stating the car could not be repaired and offering a refund less approx 30% fair usage deduction. Section 75 agreed to cover rest of shortfall according to their fair usage terms.

Spare key returned to dealer at Section 75’s request. Dealer still has not provided refund.

Section 75 now looking at full refund, but they are stipulating that I recover the car from the (hostile) dealer and arrange for it to be scrapped (it’s that bad). They will then refund the difference between scrap and purchase prices.

I get their position that the dealer should not benefit from a car they’ve not refunded, but since I’ve already fulfilled my obligations in returning it to the dealer (they had already collected it before Section 75 told me to return it to them), along with keys, which party should be responsible for its disposal now it’s no longer in my possession and I have no physical access?

Grumpy_chap

I bought a car last year. After several months I discovered it had been sold with multiple faults. Dealer collected car for inspection under Consumer Righhts Act in February. I instigated a Section 75 claim at the same time.

After much prevarication by the dealer, they finally responded in June after considerable pressure from Section 75, stating the car could not be repaired and offering a refund less approx 30% fair usage deduction. Section 75 agreed to cover rest of shortfall according to their fair usage terms.

Spare key returned to dealer at Section 75’s request. Dealer still has not provided refund.

Section 75 now looking at full refund, but they are stipulating that I recover the car from the (hostile) dealer and arrange for it to be scrapped (it’s that bad). They will then refund the difference between scrap and purchase prices.

I get their position that the dealer should not benefit from a car they’ve not refunded, but since I’ve already fulfilled my obligations in returning it to the dealer (they had already collected it before Section 75 told me to return it to them), along with keys, which party should be responsible for its disposal now it’s no longer in my possession and I have no physical access?

I am surprised that the S75 claim has agreed a full refund as, after several months (as you state), a deduction for the value of benefit received is permitted.

Woodstok2000

If the dealer hasn't refunded you then it is still your car...

Docspod

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084260#Comment_82084260

It's less their fair usage terms, which amounts to 4% of purchase price compared with 30% the dealer's deducting. So effectively another 26% back…

Docspod

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084263#Comment_82084263

True, but my researches indicate that it's usual following a Section 75 claim for the car to be returned to the dealer?

Having done the Consumer Rights Act stuff - returned the car, keys, service history to the dealer as part of rejection of the goods - is it normal to have to take them back and sell/scrap them? Particularly when the Section 75 guys had been advising all along to return all these things. I've heard of it happening if the dealer hadn't already accepted the goods back but not in this situation.

Especially when the person in possession of them is uncooperative/hostile - it makes retrieval somewhat difficult.

born_again

If bank has refunded under S75 it is effectually their car & what they do (nothing, as they do not want it) is up to them.

Docspod

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084401#Comment_82084401

They haven’t refunded yet. They are trying to make my accepting the return of the car from the dealer and selling/scrapping it a prerequisite for the refund.

Presumably because they know retrieving the car from the dealer is going to be a nightmare.

Problems are:

1. My accepting the return of the car has serious implications under both Consumer Rights Act and Aection 75
2. Technically, the offer of refund, my acceptance, and the dealer accepting the return of car and keys etc constitutes successful rejection under the Consumer Rights Act. I am led to believe this terminated the original contract of sale and ownership reverted to the dealer at that time. I gather the lack of subsequent refund turns this into an unpaid debt for which Section 75 is equally liable. As such, it’s debatable whether I have any legal right to take the car back and scrap it.

MyRealNameToo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084291#Comment_82084291

That would be far from usual because under S75 the bank is the one paying you and therefore would become the owner of the salvage, though if they actually want the salvage or not is another matter.

Under a chargeback then the car would be returned to the dealer because its the dealer that has paid for the refund not the bank.

However this case is also unusual that the bank has contacted the merchant at all on a S75 so I am guessing this was paid with on dealer arranged finance rather than a credit card and hence the bank is closer to the merchant than most S75 claims.

The obvious alternative would be that they simply refund you less the salvage and its up to you if you want to stake your claim to the salvage or lose those monies in exchange for not having to deal with the merchant

Docspod

Paid for on credit card, not dealer credit. Card company has been trying to get dealer to cough up so they didn’t have to.

It’s definitely not a chargeback - outside timeframe.

The original intent was repair under Consumer Rights Act. Dealer stated car could not be repaired and offered refund instead, which was accepted. Hence this was a Consumer Rights refund with the card company involved due to very unfair fair use deduction.

Got off phone with Citizen’s Advice. They’ve confirmed returning to dealer was the appropriate action. Because the dealer offered a refund, I accepted, and the dealer has accepted return of the car (already had it) and spare key and history, under Consumer Rights the car is now the dealer’s property and this is now a failure to pay a contractual debt. For which the card provider is equally liable. I’m told that I couldn’t legally collect the car and sell/scrap it as it is no longer my property.

Formal complaint is now being drafted to bank in anticipation of complaint to Ombudsman, who seem to take a dim view of trying to make customers jump through hoops to get refunds.

Basically, the bank seems to be doing this because they know the dealer’s going to be an absolute nightmare if they have to get the car back off him and so they’re trying to get me to do it on their behalf.

Alderbank

@Docspod, can you confirm that you are no longer the Registered Keeper of the vehicle?

That's the only reason I can think of why you seem to be the person expected to actually scrap it. Remember that RK is nothing to do with car ownership.

If you just abandoned the vehicle at the seller's premises you might well still be the RK. That would mean that if they simply turf it out onto the street that you (not they) will be responsible for any fines for leaving it on the highway without tax, insurance or MOT. Prosecution for no insurance is particularly inconvenient.

You can easily check the last date when RK was transferred. If it is around the time when you handed the car back all is OK. If it is when you bought the car however you are still the RK. If so, tell DVLA (in their jargon, tell them you have 'sold' it to the dealer) using the online form https://www.gov.uk/sold-bought-vehicle

born_again

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084658#Comment_82084658

Basically, the bank seems to be doing this because they know the dealer’s going to be an absolute nightmare if they have to get the car back off him and so they’re trying to get me to do it on their behalf.

Bank is never going to want the car back. What would they do with it? Same with any other item. They cant give them to staff.