Oil woes!

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I had my Suzuki serviced yesterday, and they included a bottle of "top-up" oil. (Which is a worry, do they anticipate A Suzuki actually burning it? How backward of these "modern" designs, I've had half a dozen 'bikes and my last car had done over 150K and none of them ever used a measurable amount per year.)

0W16, it is like water! Obviously I was horrified and checked the handbook, I notice that JDM cars don't recommend it, their minimum viscosity is 0W20, 0W16 is just for Europe, presumably to reduce emissions by another 0.0001g at the expense of engine life. (Probably why they think enough will get past the low friction rings to need a top-up)

Next time I will try and request a decent grade, 5W30 is the thinnest I'd ever put in myself, which is recommended over -30 to +40 degrees in the handbook for Europe & JDM.

Goudy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82083981#Comment_82083981

Why isn't 2 stroke engine oil the same thing? It does the same thing as any other engine oil

It lubricates the internal moving parts and removes heat from them. As with any other engine, they can't run without it and it is made out of the same base materials.

The only real differences apart from the way it's delivered is it's formulated to disperse in the fuel and as it burns and has a lower ash content than regular oil designed for 4 stroke engines.

It's made of of the same base materials and does the same job, perhaps an explanation as to why it's not the same thing is needed.

Air cooled engines require a higher content of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate to protect some of the parts from the higher levels of heat air cooled engines intrinsically generate. Though most off the shelf modern multigrades contain zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, they contain less than the specified oil recommended for these engines. So chucking something generic in isn't really helping the engine.

These fanbois using the correct oil seem to get the required results, there are still plenty on the road to attest to that even though they are so old.

As for chucking something generic, care needs to be taken. They produce, test and specify all these different types of oil for a reason. They are not all generic or the same oil in different coloured bottles. Plenty have come a cropper using incorrect oils, particularly over the last few years as wet belt cars have moved out of the hands of the dealerships and into the hands of people that just don't understand, those are the real Luddites.

Even in your humble lawn mower, if it has a wet clutch use the correct oil as modern car engine oils contain detergents and friction enhancers that will ruin a wet clutch if one is fitted it.

Goudy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82084072#Comment_82084072

The top up bottle is probably what they had left from the oil change and already sold you.

So as an example, the Swift Hybrid takes something close to 3.3 litres but you would have been sold 4 litres and they have just given you the additional 0.7 litres for top ups if needed. You bought it, it's yours.

More and more engines tend to run on these 0W-16 or 0w-20 oils these days and you are right, it's due to small gains in emissions, but they don't tend to just specify a thinner oil for the sake of it.

There will be certain changes to allow them to run on. Other similar models built in and for other countries around the world might not have to make these changes.

Your engine won't be exactly the same spec as say one built in Japan or Indonesia or India, so be wary of comparing them.

Mildly_Miffed

"Why isn't 2 stroke engine oil the same thing?
...
The only real differences apart from the way it's delivered is it's formulated to disperse in the fuel"
Exactly.

Now pause and think about what effect that might have on oil viscosity and oil temperature.

Goudy

Once it's inducted under the piston the oil is then forced out of the fuel/air/oil vapour by the pressure of the falling piston.It returns to oil with similar properties and same tasks to that of oil in a 4 stroke engine.

The increased pressure of the fuel/air/oil vapour adds heat as does the act of combustion. The oil and fuel/air vapour are no longer at an ambient temperature as it was when it was mixed with the fuel. So the oil removes that heat and the heat of the results of combustion, just as oil in a 4 stroke engine does. So both constantly cool, so no difference there.

The next induction of fuel/air/oil will cool it the same way oil from a bath or sump is constantly pumped into a 4 stroke engine. So no difference there either.

The oil in both lubricate similar bearing, pistons, conrods, cylinder walls. The only difference is there is no valve train to cool and lubricate in a 2 stroke.

It does exactly the same job as a 4 stroke engine oil and is made out of the same material. It's primary job is no different to that of oil in a 4 stroke engine.

Both types of engine have engine oil constantly fed into it to lubricate and remove heat from those engine parts.

Yes how it's delivered to those engine parts and what happens to it after are different, but it's the same thing, oil is constantly fed into both engines to lubricate and cool.

So at best how it does it isn't the same but the very reason why it does it is exactly the same.

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Your engine won't be exactly the same spec as say one built in Japan or Indonesia or India, so be wary of comparing them.

It was built in Japan, it might not be quite the same as full JDM spec especially as regards emission components, but I'd expect it is exactly the same as regards the internals.

I actually had to have a new fuel pump on recall as they fitted the same one as the JDM cars, and our ethanol contaminated fuel quickly destroys them due to the internals expanding until they seize, luckily I have never ever put e10 in it so mine didn't seize before it was changed

In The Olden Days my late father used to run his Rover 90 on Cleveland Discol, (It was more a case of being what our local garage sold rather than a conscious decision on his part) which was advertised as containing ethanol for extra go-fasterness (if it was being injected post supercharger to reduce detonation like a BF109 used a 50/50 methanol/water mix I might believe it, but not with a 7.5:1 compression ratio…), but I suspect that it actually contained about as much ethanol as Shandy Bass used to, rather than the 15% Google AI claims, as it never caused any problem that I recall. We did beak down on the way to Aberystwyth once when the fuel pump stopped working, but that would have been the points as usual……

Mildly_Miffed

If Japanese domestic market cars really aren't capable of running on E10, then they're in for a rude awakening in the next few years, because while they're around 1.7% now, they're moving to E10 by 2030 and E20 by 2040.

All European market cars have, of course, had to be perfectly capable of running on E10 since 2009.
Unleaded has been E5 since it was introduced in the 80s.
The UK was really late to E10, ubiquitous across various other European countries for a decade longer than here.

Cleveland Discol was up to around E35, and was marketed from the 30s to the 70s as "alcohol for engine power"

Bigphil1474

OP, I have a Peugeot, my handbook says 5w30 oil which I buy from my local indy for topping up - they base the oil on the reg plate so I don't know the exact type. I trust they know which is the correct one. However, I noticed a couple of years ago that the Peugeot dealer was using 0w30 for the oil change and they insisted it was correct, my local supplier insisted Peugeot were wrong. After the belt change on the 6 year service a couple of years ago, the car was losing about half a litre of oil a month. Then all of a sudden this year, the dealership changed to the same 5w30 oil I got from my local indy, which has meant I'm topping up about 0.5l after 5 months. Car has been fine throughout, apart from me forgetting to top it up once during it's mega oil burning phase.