Info re: Greek runway closures?

la531983

Hi all, is there a website where this information can be found? I did find a website relating to NOTAMs but this doesnt cover Greece.

Basic details.

My sister was due back this morning on BY2401 from RHO to MAN, scheduled 0145 EET, landing 0410 BST

However due to an earlier failure of the aircraft on an earlier sector (believe its still stuck in Paphos!), TUI sent out a rescue flight operated by WAMOS, from Madrid to Manchester, and then to Rhodes, which landed at Rhodes at 0239 EET this morning. Pax were told by email that the return flight would be at 0600 EET, so thats already a 4h15 delay to departure (and likely 4h to arrival at MAN)

However at some point overnight, Rhodes closed the runway. I have no idea if this was scheduled or not and may account for why they were told 0600 EET departure even before they got to the airport (they could have left by 0400 EET on a quick turnaround as Rhodes conducts 24/7 operations in the summer). The runway didnt open again until 0807 EET (thats when the first flight landed again) after a number of diversions, and my sister finally arrived back at Manchester at 1113 BST this morning, so in total a delay of around seven hours.

So essentially what I am trying to find out is how much are TUI going to use the runway closure to get out of paying compensation to passengers, and why they were told 0600 departure initially when in theory, the plane could have turned around immediately assuming no crew rest issues.

I am told spending 9 hours in Rhodes airport overnight is not fun.

MyRealNameToo

Rhode's airports own website shows two flights left at circa 06:55 this morning (though were due to have left at 06:00). The delayed Manchester flight then left at 08:49

The general european portal suggests there were ATC capacity issues in Rhodes and other greek islands but their website hasnt worked properly for me in ages so cant say for definite if that as this morning or see more details

la531983

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82079790#Comment_82079790

The very limited information my sister was told by the WAMOS crew was that there was an issue with the runway, a number of planes held and a couple ended up diverting to Kos. So nothing was landing for a period, seems odd they were allowing departures.

Would be useful to know because last night they were told a 6am departure, which meant the WAMOS plane would have been on the ground for over three hours, for a 24/7 airport this seems strange, slots and airspace wouldnt have been at a premium at 0330/0400 local time either.

So it likely depends why they were told 6am and they were told that time at 8pm last night.

She just told me that the same crew were the ones who did Madrid-Manchester (empty), Manchester to Rhodes and then Rhodes to Manchester. So thats a long day and surely they went over hours.

MyRealNameToo

6 am is the listed time of when it should have taken off, but it was delayed like all the planes in the morning

la531983

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82079939#Comment_82079939

Yes my point being if it was in at 2.40am, why did it wait until 6am to go back to MAN? Its a 24/7 airport is it not? Original flight time was 1.45am. Even if it set off at 6am the overall delay on arrival would have still been over 3 hours so this is the crux of the issue as to whether compo applies. And it wasnt a case they were waiting for a different crew either at 6am, my sister spoke to one of them and it was their third flight of the shift.

The departure time of 6am was set in emails sent to pax at 9pm the previous night, I have a copy of this.

MyRealNameToo

Its licenced to be able to operate 24/7 and whilst the terminal is open 24/7 the reality is that flights dont leave 24/7 even in peak time. Looking over the last few days circa 3am is the last departure and 6am the next

According to FlightFinder the Wamos plane had come from MAN not MAD and didnt land in RHO until 02:39 it had been in MAD earlier that day but had left at 18:00 to MAN. So even if the plane could have been turned around quicker you crew are giong to be a problem. They wont have recoverd by 6am so will depend when you can get a crew there too unless the crew changed in MAN but that would be odd as they only had done one short flight with that plane by that point in the day

Westin

In case you need them, here are the FlightRadar24 timings for that Wamos operated flight MAD MAN RHO MAN -

It would seem like there must have been some sort of airport/airfield/runway or ATC issue for RHO departures this morning. Everything seemed delayed and nothing left between 00:49L and 06:49L -

la531983

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82079984#Comment_82079984

The crew didnt change at MAN. It was the same crew that had come from MAD.

Source: my sister who talked to them. Said they were staying in MAN today and going back to MAD tomorrow.

The overall point here is why was a 6am departure stated right from the off. Was this for crew rest reasons, ATC restrictions not allowing a take off between 3 and 6, or was the runway closure (if there was even one?) a planned one.

Surely the answer will determine if compo is due. Think she has spent the 2k in her head, told her its not as simple as that.

bagand96

The following NOTAM was active from 23/07/26 23:00 to 24/07/26 03:00

RWY 06/24 CLSD DUE TO WIP.
ONLY THE FOLLOWING HELICOPTER FLIGHTS WITH 60MIN PRIOR NOTICE ARE
PERMITTED TO LAND/TAKE OFF DIRECT AT/FROM THE APRON:
STATE FLIGHTS, FLIGHTS IN UNUSUAL OR EMERGENCY SITUATION
SANITARY/HOSPITAL FLIGHTS, HUMANITARIAN FLIGHTS, SEARCH AND RESCUE
FLIGHTS, FIREFIGHTING FLIGHTS.)

There was then a further NOTAM valid 24/07/26 04:16 to 05:00

RWY 06/24 CLSD DUE TO WIP.
ONLY THE FOLLOWING HELICOPTER FLIGHTS WITH 60MIN PRIOR
NOTICE ARE PERMITTED TO LAND/TAKE OFF DIRECT AT/FROM THE APRON:
STATE FLIGHTS, FLIGHTS IN UNUSUAL OR EMERGENCY SITUATION,
SANITARY/HOSPITAL FLIGHTS,
HUMANITARIAN FLIGHTS, SEARCH AND RESCUE FLIGHTS, FIREFIGHTING
FLIGHTS.

Note than all times are GMT, local Rhodes times is +3 hours. WIP = Work In Progress. Strange thing is that the second NOTAM started at 04:16 which is an odd time, and perhaps points to an unplanned issue with the runway, perhaps the previous works didn't go to plan or ran over.

It would appear your suspicion is correct, the 06:00 departure would have been based on the original runway closure, but that then got extended by the second closure.

The crew didnt change at MAN. It was the same crew that had come from MAD.

The crew likely traveled with the aircraft from Madrid to Manchester as Madrid is an operating base for Wamos and Manchester isn't. Long day out for all concerned, but a 2 person cockpit crew almost certainly couldn't operate that whole day within hours limitations, cabin crew operate to different rules.

la531983

So a NOTAM between 2am and 6am local time (which accounts for the 6am scheduled departure) and then another between 7.16am and 8am local time.

But the WAMOS plane landed at 2.40am or so? Then again I suppose they gave notice.

So no NOTAM between 0600 and 0716 local time, still no explanation why the plane couldn't take off at that point I suppose. Or indeed after 0800 when the second one expired.

bagand96

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82080723#Comment_82080723

I wouldn't rely too much on exact NOTAM times as a binary measure of runway open or closed. As you point out the Wamos flight landed during the first closure. Maybe the work started late, maybe it was delayed to let Wamos land, maybe it was accommodated around the work.

A couple of flights did depart between 0600 and 0716. Perhaps they experienced or reported an issue which warranted further investigation? Investigating and coming up with a plan to resolve won't be instant and is probably was what happening between 0600 and 0716 when there wasn't a NOTAM, that doesn't mean the runway is available though.

As for not departing right after 0800, work could have ran over? Although by that time the disruption will have mounted, availability of ground handling services would also have contributed with so many flights delayed.

What is clear is that there was runway works in Rhodes over the period that the flight should have departed, and these appear to have gone on longer than planned. I'm not sure you'll get much more granular explanations from the airline than that, but you can always ask. It's likely the airline were only getting limited information as well.