RTS meter replacements: A fact finding mission.

Cailleach26

Please only respond if you had an indoors located RTS meter replaced with a smart meter.

I am interested in which location the RTS meter was (hallways, bedroom, kitchen, lounge…), was easily accessible or only by ladder for example, was it on the internal side of an outside wall or was it on a partition wall (such as plasterboard or similar)… and whether the "upgrade" (the smart meter as the replacement for the RTS meter) was installed in the very same place or whether the supply (metering point) had to be or was moved.

This is not to start a discussion or to hear opinions, I just want to hear experiences.

Just briefly the background why I am asking this:

My supplier (Utility Warehouse) pushes very aggressively for a smart meter installation. In the very same place where the RTS meter sits. However, the DNO says, that this place would not meet the requirements for a safe installation of a smart meter, it is not permitted and that the metering point must therefore be moved. I fully agree with the DNO. And am awaiting a quote from them for moving the supply (metering point).

My supplier has been informed about the technical barriers. The first time in April last year. Numerous times since then. Still, they ignore not only what I say but also what the DNO says. By the looks of it they would press ahead for an installation anyway, irrespectively of the DNO's statements.

So, since not only just "our" DNO (which is SSEN) has issued guidance where meters can be and where they must not be installed, but also almost identical guidance has been published by the National Grid, I want to find out where exactly (which room, which position etc.) suppliers did actually install smart meters as replacements for RTS meters.

Brie

Not quite the same but Outfox had to replace our meters (electric was fine & smart but old, gas wasn't smart so they had to replace both). There was no problem doing the work even though the electric meter was in a cupboard inside a cleaning supply cupboard in the hall way. Accessible but not easily until everything comes out of the cupboard.

Where is your meter located?

My understanding from the guy that did ours is that the energy provider might send out a electrician to do the swap but it's up to the that individual as to whether it's a safe install and they can arrive and then refuse to do the work.

Cailleach26

Where is your meter located? On a partition wall, above a doorframe, at a height of 2.57m, accessible only by ladder… according to the DNO absolutely not permitted to install a smart meter there.

My understanding from the guy that did ours is that the energy provider might send out a electrician to do the swap but it's up to the that individual as to whether it's a safe install and they can arrive and then refuse to do the work.

Yes, in theory, an installer could (and sometimes should!) refuse. And some do. But there seem to be others who appear to bow to the suppliers' pressure and install even when they should (from a safety perspective) not do so.

I've had a very lengthy and interesting phone conversation with the lead of the RTS group of our local authority a couple of days ago. They already have come across installations in our region that should not have gone ahead and where the meter position should have been moved to facilitate safe and correct installation.

I just want to find out how widespread this issue could be. It is unlikely that this would affect only our region.

Newbie_John

It was in a garage near the ceiling, at about 2m height. Engineer came, stood on a chair that I gave him and replaced it.

IHD is in the kitchen, other side of wall.

QrizB

It's a very long thread but Rosie1001 had an RTS meter that was high enough she needed a ladder to read it.

EDF replaced the meter without any fuss.

See:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6614885/here-i-go-again/p1

There was a lot of fuss over tariffs after the meter was replace (which is why there's 57 pages of thread) but that's EDF for you. So long as you have a "normal" smart meter on a mainstream tariff, those problems shouldn't be yours.

Cailleach26

The answers I received here so far (thanks to everyone who responded) seem to confirm what I suspected, based on own experience, conversations wit DNO and the local authority: replacements are sometimes taking place where they shouldn't.

An installer may not make a fuss when they got to climb a ladder, they may not mention that new meter should not be mounted onto a partition wall, or above a doorframe, in the midst of people's living quarters and so forth. They want to get the job "done". As quickly and easily as possible. Not going ahead with the installation, providing feedback to the suppliers that the DNO would be required to move the meter to facilitate a correct installation, opens - in their and the suppliers' view - a new can of worms and would slow down the roll-out process.

The way the DNO had explained it to me: old legacy meters, anaolgue meters are often found in "funny" places. But these were "passive", they just recorded, hence it wasn't a problem. It was perhaps a nuisance for home owners having to climb ladders to get a reading. The old meters didn't try to communicate data. They also lasted much longer (longer certification periods) whereas smart meters normally need to be replaced every 10 years, that's where the accessibility argument comes in. Smart meters do communicate data. The jury might still be out whether this could have health issues. In academic literature you find studies that claim any health effects would be negligible, but you find others that claim the opposite. Since studies that investigated cumulative effects from all the devices modern humans are exposed to in their homes, are still notably absent, I find it laudable when a DNO adheres to the precautionary principle.

Yes, of course DNOs are benefitting of a meter move too. Because the fees for this (the home owner mostly pays), contribute indirectly to costs DNOs face for modernisation of their network and for unlooping, the latter required (more often than I would have thought) for facilitating heat pumps and EV charging.

QrizB

They also lasted much longer (longer certification periods)

Quite a few of the "electronic" meters fitted from the early 90s (maybe late 89s?) also had short certified lives.

I remember my first house had a spinning-disc meter when we moved in, which was replaced twice (both times with electronic meters) before we moved out nine years later.

The jury might still be out whether this could have health issues.

The jury is definitely in, and they do not cause health issues.

Ildhund

There's one detail missing (I think) from the original problem description. There have been almost as many different RTS metering arrangements as there were properties fitted with them. We have only seen here reference to 'the RTS meter'; some properties were fitted with all-in-one RTS meters, usually not far from the DNO's service head. A common arrangement was to have two meters - one for non-restricted supply, the other for the RTS-controlled supply. The first was often on an exterior wall, inside or outside, close to the DNO's service head. The second was sometimes well inside the property, perhaps in or near the kitchen and/or the fuse box.

It was this latter arrangement that caused major difficulties for suppliers trying to exchange the meters for a modern smart one, because of the separation of the two metering points. So now I'd ask please whether @Cailleach26 has an all-in-one meter (this one is 25 years old, mounted next to the service head) or some other arrangement. Photos would really help if possible.

Newbie_John

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82066814#Comment_82066814

Main issue with smart meter is reception, not an issue with itself. Try to put your phone to some of the obscure places and it won't communicate, it still works fine though - but as an old dumb-meters without the fancy smart functionality.

Reed_Richards

Main issue with smart meter is reception…

… which will most likely improve the higher the meter can be positioned.

Cailleach26

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82066739#Comment_82066739

Mine is presumably older, a Landis + Gyr dual rate (which I guess makes it an all-in-one) that seems to have been recertified repeatedly over the years/decades. Quite a common one to be found in many homes in our region…