Octopus Energy - Not as good as they think they are

jackieblack

I've been with Octopus for about 10 years, they used to be great but I've become increasingly disillusioned over the last 6-8 months. Am seriously considering switching to a different provider

tfhnota

Some of the Octopus replies sound like automated AI, or an actual person cutting and pasting AI without a thought about what they are doing - if you get caught in that cycle it can go wrong but they are very good if you can actually get a real person. Most of the impetus for DD increases, against good sense, are down to Ofgem rules about not letting people get into debt and the need for the energy companies to have a pile of dosh to stop themselves going bust and Octopus are far from alone in putting up DD for no real reason but at least they do allow variable direct debit as a solution. Almost all electronic stuff is full of gremlins post-Covid, from computer systems through to EV's, no idea why.

prowla

Octopus are always trying to bump up the monthly payment.

I go onto my account and change the setting downwards.

Sometimes I have to take two runs to get it down to where I want to.

BikingBud

Have been there a number of times and find that they will try to claim lots of things including a need to satisfy OFGEM that customers will not accrue massive debt.

If you are on a smart meter then your records are there to be seen, you have a pattern of use that can be seen and should be used to determine the annual cost and then divide by 12 for mthly DD.

If not on a smart meter, get into the habit of self-reading and submitting and comparing with the usage estimate they put on your bills and then work out your own cost divide by 12 and set your DD level.

Expect to repeat this a number of times of times and explain when they wish to increase the DD that you are following the principle of their Balance Forecast tool but with inaccuracies of their forecast taken out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXWlgsAcwNU

You might note that Martin's sine curve is symmetrical about £0 whereas Octopus wish you to always remain in credit. Although they used to have this graphic and I pressed to stay with this:

I pushed for adherence tot his model and I agreed to settle any difference in May and adjust as we go forward if necessary.

MattMattMattUK

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82056910#Comment_82056910

It is not:

You might note that Martin's sine curve is symmetrical about £0 whereas Octopus wish you to always remain in credit.

They made this change because they and all energy suppliers are required to do so by Ofgem, customers are not allowed to fall into debt at any point of the year.

BikingBud

So why do Octopus still show it and how am I paying against that profile?

We've been here before and your claim that they are not allowed is fallacious.

Octopus:

If you've not got time for a long read, here's the gist:

We never increase your payment just for the sake of it. Overwhelmingly, customers owe us more money than we owe them.

We run thorough, frequent ‘health checks’ on your account to make sure your balance is where it should be and your payments are at a good level.

The reason we change Direct Debits is to make sure you can cover the cost of the energy you use and get to a healthy balance – we explain a bit more how we work out what’s healthy later on.

You’re always in control of your payments, and can change them online or by talking to our team.

And:

How do you check I’m paying the right amount?

We run thorough, automated “health checks” for every account, covering many details. On payments, these checks make sure: 

12x your monthly payment equals your annual energy costs

Your account balance is healthy (this could be credit or debit depending on the time of year, but we aim for your account to be close to zero by the end of April)

And:

Understanding your balance

Is it normal to be in credit or debit at different times of year?

You may see that your account has a positive balance in the Summer and a negative balance in the Winter. It’s generally because you’re paying the same amount year-round, but using less energy in Summer and more in Winter.

If you think that your credit is too high, you can always ask for a refund (we just ask for a meter reading so we can bring your charges up to date). If you think you’re building too much debit, you can increase your payments or make a one-off payment online too. 

And at the same time, as always, we’re still doing our checks along the way and will make recommendations if we think you need to change your DD.

And the direct response from Octopus to me asking ingrate detail what these blogs mean:

To clarify, Ofgem doesn’t specify a set amount or definition for what constitutes a “healthy balance.” However, all energy suppliers are required to ensure that payment methods, such as Direct Debits, are reasonable, accurate, and based on up-to-date information (including meter readings and current prices). At Octopus Energy, we interpret this as ensuring customers’ accounts are in a manageable position throughout the year, avoiding large unexpected bills during higher usage months, while preventing excessive credit build-up. The “five weeks’ credit” mentioned in our blog isn’t a regulatory requirement, but rather a guide within our own approach to maintaining accounts at a sustainable level. It’s designed to keep balances stable while still giving flexibility for customers who prefer a different approach

You should stop telling customers that they must and instead show them the advice that the company provide, so that they can manage their accounts effectively.

BikingBud

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82056962#Comment_82056962

Please show me where it says that.

MWT

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82057014#Comment_82057014

There is a lot of conflicting information around, but this bit has been in the Octopus T&Cs since they first started:

When paying by direct debit:

you should keep your account in credit and we
will track and carry the balance forward to the
next month€™s Statement of Account;

BikingBud

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82057151#Comment_82057151

And again we have been here before.

Conflicting? Because you are quoting company preference as mandated code of practice. What Octopus put in their T&C is not and has not been shown to be mandated by OFGEM.

Further that is not what @MattMattMattUK said, to remind:

They made this change because they and all energy suppliers are required to do so by OFGEM, customers are not allowed to fall into debt at any point of the year.

Where does OFGEM say that customers are not allowed to fall into debt. I would like someone to tell me where it says that. They do not and cannot say that, it is impossible to manage.

The quotes from the Octopus website above - https://octopus.energy/blog/direct-debit-payments/ indicate that they do understand this and recognise that accounts will fall into debt. If OFGEM required them to ensure all customers were always in credit then those statements would be much stronger, prohibitive, and I wouldn't be operating my account in the way I am.

So back in the real world, let's educate people rather than misinforming and enable them to engage positively with their energy supplier to drive out a payment schedule that meets their payment obligations and does not leave them unnecessarily banking large amounts of cash with the supplier without any benefits.

MWT

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82057187#Comment_82057187

So back in the real world, let's educate people rather than misinforming
and enable them to engage positively with their energy supplier to
drive out a payment schedule that meets their payment obligations and
does not leave them unnecessarily banking large amounts of cash with the
supplier without any benefits.

I believe I have just stated their payment obligations as per the contract…

The problem is that Octopus are confusingly liberal when it comes to enforcing their T&Cs.