PIP Tribunal second attempt

Ms_Chocaholic

Has your wife got a ADHD diagnosis? Have you considered bipolar? I do know they can be mistaken for each other. I'm also aware that endometriosis and bipolar frequently co-occur.

fuzzzzy

I know that being a carer does not preclude entitlement to PIP (as it depends on the type of care provided and the activities involved), but would a new tribunal examine the fact that your wife now claims carer allowance (as mentioned in your previous thread), and potentially use this as a reason to deny points.

peteuk

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82050548#Comment_82050548

If your wife is claiming carer allowance as a carer, then she is doing so for at least 35 hrs a week, not the majority of the time. So legally the answer is yes.

However if the caring for involves actions that contradict what your wife is claiming then yes it will be questioned and yes it can be used to justify a descriptor.

In a simple example if the person being cared for can not wash daily, and so your carer washes them, but you then claims in their own PIP application she can not wash herself then this could be used as evidence against your claim.

leamingtonspaceman

My wife isn't claiming the carers element of UC. We were advised not to do that in a previous thread.

Even if my wife was claiming the carers element of UC, how would this be brought into her PIP assessment? I was under the impression that any other benefits you claim have no bearing on a PIP claim?

I don't think a tribunal that is considering your PIP claim has any knowledge of other benefits you receive or why you receive them, as this could be prejudicial?

I'm guessing the only way this would come into play would be if the DWP attended the tribunal and revealed this?

Muttleythefrog

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051004#Comment_82051004

Oh they absolutely can… and indeed Work Capability assessments are frequently used in PIP claims by claimant, assessors, DWP and tribunals and vice versa PIP information/reports/outcomes for WCA relating to UC or ESA. I'm a good example where both have been used interchangeably for both benefits by me, assessors and DWP Decision makers and referred to not just as evidence sources but details within them including to give opinion and decisions… (always to my favour and favour of accuracy I would add). If it helps her claim for PIP then definitely was right to include her ESA report and the failure to consider it may have been part of the reason the Upper Tribunal ruled as they did.

Importantly other benefit claims can shed light on facts or be evidence.

I note you're saying they're not claiming carer element of UC… but when I saw reference to her being a carer/carer's allowance…. if such a claim or details of equivalent were in place as evidence for tribunal (you will know as you will have seen what they have seen.. and presumably they were not) including potentially as oral testimony (again which you would be aware of if involved in the event)… in my mind my immediate thoughts were to the 4-5 days and 'insufficient days in week'…. because if they considered her a carer for over 35 hours a week then 4-5 days of severe pain may be incompatible at face value. However if the tribunal was unaware of 'carer' role then it leaves that insufficient days in week again an inexplainable.

As general comment if someone was considered to be providing care for over 35 hours a week and claiming PIP I would expect the compatibility issue to be looked at… what is the care being provided and does that factually conflict with the severity and durability of disablements claimed. I'm particularly mindful through the years of observation of the idea that the most valuable thing a claimant has is credibility… and if they lose that for whatever reason (including unfairly) it can be the fundamental reason they fail in claim… we've even seen examples where claimants have received good awards but challenged them (against advice sometimes) and started giving conflicting evidence (such as arguing Mobility 1F applies rather than the 1E awarded) to achieve better outcome only to lose entire award. That may not be relevant an issue here and you will be well placed to determine if it is a possibility at this tribunal. Definitely be mindful of it at the forthcoming tribunal.

fuzzzzy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051004#Comment_82051004

Sorry I was just going off what you said in that previous thread

"I have requested carers element to begin from 5th June, this being the AP2"

This was in June 2025 when you were actually advised to put your wife as carer for UC by Yamor, but to do it in the second assessment period not the first.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81505680#Comment_81505680

But if you are now saying you did not do that then it is not relevant.

leamingtonspaceman

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051176#Comment_82051176

We got VERY confused regarding the thread you've quoted, and frankly still are about that situation.

What was decided in the end was to wait and see what happened with my wife's PIP claim before doing anything at all. Someone at the Job Centre actually advised that and said that it could be awarded retrospectively if my wife didn't eventually receive PIP.

The advice in that thread was to do one thing at a time and get my wife's PIP tribunal out of the way first.

If she is awarded PIP, I will resurrect that previous thread and update accordingly.

leamingtonspaceman

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051137#Comment_82051137

Regarding including your ESA evidence to support your PIP claim, that's your choice to include it. If you hadn't done so, then the tribunal would not know you claim ESA.

This was my point. The tribunal only know what you tell them. In my wife's case, if she had claimed the carers element of UC, how would the tribunal know you get that?

Using ESA evidence to support a PIP claim is enshrined in case law which is why the evidence is allowed to support a PIP claim. In my wife's ESA health report from the DWP appointed health professional, it confirms all of her reasons for claiming ESA are genuine and backed up with evidence. Even the assesment report for PIP by the DWP appointed health professional confirms many of the same. But the DWP and tribunal ignored all of this.

I don't think it was the upper tribunal who set the decision aside regarding my wife's claim. I believe it's initially a judge at regular tribunal level who rules and if you don't agree with that ruling, it's then that you go to the upper tribunal.

I stand to be corrected though…?

leamingtonspaceman

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82049465#Comment_82049465

Your links are only to what ADHD actually is and how you can mitigate the effects of the condition. All well and good, but nothing to do with what was being discussed.

The discussion was around the condition improving in adult life and how many people that applies to. A figure was given and you agreed with that based on anecdotal evidence. I supplied links to research that refuted that figure.

With your "...live and wallow with it." comment, I'm assuming that you think everyone with ADHD needs to pull themselves together, get on with it and use the strategies you've linked to in order to get over it?

Unlike your hubby, not everybody is capable of such stoicism. The links I provided demonstrate that.

Does your husband have a history of suicidal depression and ideation? Is your husband in pain 4-5 days a week due to multiple ulcers on the inside of his body, a condition for which there is no cure? Did your husband have a father who hit him and belittled him and did nothing to give him confidence or any shred of self-esteem? With these in mind, it makes it just a wee bit more difficult not to "wallow" in your ADHD.

Your evidence comes from a group of ONE... your husband. The links I provided are to actual medical research.

I could give you hundreds of links that tell you how to mitigate the effects of, say, alcoholism... but also give you hundreds of links to how many people are alcoholics and how many who go 'dry' end up going back to drinking.

What is needed from you is evidence of how many people follow the advice in the links you've given and remain in 'remission' from ADHD as a result.

The answer to that is in the links I provided, and it's not as many as claimed earlier, a claim you agreed with based solely on your own experience.

Yes, I gave details of SOME of my wife's medical conditions and so put that up for debate. But you are taking that way too far and seem to be on a moral crusade to demonstrate to everyone that ADHD isn't such a bad thing.

fuzzzzy

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82051350#Comment_82051350

Not sure what you are saying there. So your wife could claim the carers element retrospectively if she is not eventually awarded PIP?