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PIP Tribunal second attempt
Comments
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Sad but these are all things that have come up before, as reasons to not get a award.
You have a bank acc, so you can manage finances. Has never managed them in all the years we have been married. My wife's is purely for ID. I am now her appointee. So they can't use that argument anymore.= Worth exploring.
Life in the slow lane0 -
This isn't the case.
What you're talking about here are what's known as 'baseline' interactions. These are interactions that you can't avoid and are simply not relevant regarding a PIP application.
What you're suggesting is quite something. That you'd have a job, have work colleagues and ONLY EVER discuss work issues. So if a colleague said "Good morning, how are you?" to you, you'd just ignore them. But if you answered "Good thanks" or "Not so good thanks", these would be classed as social interactions?
I don't think so.
I think you're confusing 'manners' with social 'interactions.' So by your philosophy, if somebody held a door open for you, and you thanked them, this would be classed as socialising and not simply good manners?
Following social protocols isn't the same as building and maintaining relationships.
There is case law regarding this. It was pointed out by the person we went to for advice regarding the appeal:
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That 'smile and nod' is a very good example of a 'baseline' social interaction. It's good manners, but doesn't mean the recipient is going to think they're best friends.
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I deal with all of our finances.
I find the "having a bank account" thing a bit odd as how else would you receive your PIP payments?
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As born_again alluded to, having a bank account in your name, and operating said account are two different things. It depends on what is being claimed obviously in this context, but operating a bank account demonstrates a level of financial competence. If an individual is financially incompetent, someone else has to operate the account on their behalf.
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I feel like this is a very grey area.
PIP concentrates on budgeting. Many people operate their own bank account, but are terrible at budgeting.
I have a friend who is perfectly able to operate a bank account, but it didn't stop him losing everything he had due to a gambling addiction.
So he could operate a bank account without issue, but it didn't mean he was able to use the money in his account wisely. In fact, he was so financially astute with regards to using the system, getting loans etc etc which is what led to his financial downfall.
Years ago I had a girlfriend who was an alcoholic. She had a bank account. Her wages were paid into it but she spent hundreds of pounds on alcohol. She was secretly in debt up to her eyeballs. So again, having the bank account wasn't the issue, it was what she spent the money on.
My wife can operate a bank account without issue. But, she loses track of direct debits, subscriptions, overdraft payments etc.
So it isn't the actual operation of the bank account that is an issue, it's what you do with the money in said bank account.
I can operate a fridge, but if I leave a bottle of milk in it for six months then drink it, I'm going to be very ill. I can operate the fridge, it'd be the contents of if that would be the issue.
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Budgeting is different to spending money wisely (or unwisely).
For example, I would say getting repeated bounced DD's for priority bills, and additional charges would indicate a failure to be able to effectively budget.
It is a grey area, as it depends on what context the capability of running a bank account is being put forward.
Just anecdotally, I've worked in the finance profession, with people that can't spend their money wisely, end up needing to borrow money from friends, family, credit providers before pay day. They wouldn't get any points for PIP!
I suppose a corollary would be a driving licence. Licence holders can regularly get done for speeding, no insurance etc. It doesn't mean that they are incapable of driving. Retaining a driving licence means you are willing to drive. Retaining control of a bank account and operating it yourself, to me shows that you aren't that worried about financial incompetence. Especially when there is someone trustworthy, willing and able to perform that task and eradicate the risk.
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Retaining a driving licence even if you no longer drive gives you a form of official ID, without which it is difficult to do a whole raft of things.
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They would get points for PIP if their irresponsible spending habits were linked to a medical/psychological condition.
We felt that the tribunal were expressing an opinion that my wife would only get PIP if she surrendered her bank account, driving licence and passport.
Having a driving licence does not constitute that there is a willingness to drive. It simply means you had a driving licence anyway, or before you became disabled. Many disabled people can't drive due to their inherent disabilities, but would be able to with adaptations to a car. But if they've surrendered their driving licence, that's just another added layer of difficulty for them once they are in a position to drive again, through said adaptations that allow them to.
Are we really saying in 2026 that a disabled person must be without a bank account, driving licence and passport in order to be disabled?
Are disabled people not disabled if they travel?
We travelled abroad for our honeymoon. The airline gave us seats right next to the toilet. The airports gave us priority boarding. We didn't have to queue for anything. It's all about giving the disabled access to the same things as the non-disabled.
If you don't have a passport, you are denying someone their right to do what everyone else is able to do.
When my wife was moved to UC, the Jobcentre (DWP) needed her bank account details, passport and driving licence to move the claim over. So the DWP expect you to have these things, but it's held against you when applying for PIP.
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It does, but there are several other options for ID that aren't potentially dangerous.
In the context of benefits assessment, it's weight of evidence. I would give more weight to someone who has relinquished control of their finances than not, if claiming an inability to budget. Especially if they live with a trusted partner, share many bills already etc.
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